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Old 01-03-2007, 01:34 PM   #2521
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Hey guys, sorry i am new to this motor stuff,
So when you's say motor is pulling certain amps at 2.0volts is that on the bench out of car with no load on motor?

I have a ICE charger which i think i can play with this feature to see how my motor stacks up in the amps department.

thanks.....
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Old 01-03-2007, 02:41 PM   #2522
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i have a ICE machine aswell
get around 8.0-9.5a @2.0v less amps bigger pinion then lots of amps

lots of amps means motor will/can get hotter into the 5 min run thus go slower at the end
trial & error to find what works with you

no-load it is done under
(yes!! we know the motor will change as soon as you put in the car under load ) but you just live with it & learn quickley what to do & not what to do

Dynos with on-load capability cost alot lot lot of dosh

HTH
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Old 01-03-2007, 02:42 PM   #2523
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOSI123
Hey guys, sorry i am new to this motor stuff,
So when you's say motor is pulling certain amps at 2.0volts is that on the bench out of car with no load on motor?

I have a ICE charger which i think i can play with this feature to see how my motor stacks up in the amps department..
Most of the time this is out of the car with a fan on the motor to give it some load.

I have run a couple of motors on a friends Turbo 35 and my ICE and they are pretty close on the amp draw readings. My Super IQ reads almost an amp low.
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Old 01-03-2007, 02:48 PM   #2524
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@haagar
do you run fan on motor all the time when on the motor run in machines

also how many of you guy`s do this

i run my motors for like 2 mins to see the figs
too short
or longer
done it this for years
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Old 01-03-2007, 02:53 PM   #2525
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thanks, yeah i just wanted to know whether to load motor or not so as my figures could compare with other peoples, other wise if i loaded with fan and others did not then i would wonder what is up with my figures, but i suppose you cant make every one follow a standard in their garage, lol
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Old 01-04-2007, 12:52 AM   #2526
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Q)which gets hottest on 27t/19t spec motors
Can or Arm ??

Q)what is the cause of power loss

i think it`s the can/mags that get staturated in heat & lose there get up & go during the race ,but some one has said i`m not right
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Old 01-04-2007, 01:17 AM   #2527
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heat is generated at the com then transfers to can via copper endbell, causing magnets to deplete.
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Old 01-04-2007, 01:26 AM   #2528
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lignum vitae
heat is generated at the com then transfers to can via copper endbell, causing magnets to deplete.

Copy & paste from he`s quote

`Anyway...it is my personal view that there isnt much point cooling the can of a brushed motor as the magnets dont suffer from the kind of heat we are talking about. It is far more important to cool the internals such as the winding and the com/brush....

i think it`s very important to keep Can/mags cool

he properly be on here ltr (name;;Sonneteer) Remo
i`ll go & get him
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Old 01-04-2007, 02:03 AM   #2529
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Hi Guys,

Anyone here using MuchMore Motor Master? I need some tips on how to use it to properly break-in the silver can motors as well as to understand the output from the various tests available with the motor checker.

Anyway, i have been using the Quick Mode and CTX-Test (6 cell mode) for my old motors. Here are the results:-

Quick Test - 30 seconds @7.2 Volt

i) MM-01 : M = 2.37 A = 1.70
ii) JSM-01 : M = 2.75 A = 2.01
iii) JSM-02 : M = 2.58 A = 1.86
iv) JSM-03 : M = 2.83 A = 1.95

CTX-Test @6 cell mode

i) MM-01 : Peak Amp = 2.19 Average Amp = 1.19
ii) JSM-01 : Peak Amp = 2.84 Average Amp = 1.46
iii) JSM-02 : Peak Amp = 2.52 Average Amp = 1.41
iv) JSM-03 : Peak Amp = 2.60 Average Amp = 1.53

Based on the numbers above and also based on the postings (which recommend to use the average amp draw), is it correct to say that motor JSM-01 is the best motor (under Quick Test) and JSM-03 the best of the lot under CTX-Test?

Which method is more reliable? But of course i would agree that it would be best to test the motors on the track!

Your help is highly appreciated.
Thanks.
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Old 01-04-2007, 02:03 AM   #2530
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My thinking is that most of the heat is generated at the brush/comm junction - the power flows through that point, arcing, and it is the single greatest friction point on the motor.

That said, the can and magnets are the most massive/dense part of the motor and end up being the primary heatsink for the system. Cooling down the can and magnets would have the effect of drawing more heat away from the endbell while it's running. So, I agree that they are very important.

My 2 cents is that a good deal of motor fade has to do with the temperature of the comm and brush faces. Cavities and horizontal slots across the face of the brushes seem to decrease fade. My personal theory is that it's because there is more airflow on the face of the brush.

Really tough one to measure though..... mostly theoretical. I'm really interested to hear what others think as well.
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Old 01-04-2007, 02:08 AM   #2531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTX3-B
Hi Guys,

Anyone here using MuchMore Motor Master? I need some tips on how to use it to properly break-in the silver can motors as well as to understand the output from the various tests available with the motor checker.

Anyway, i have been using the Quick Mode and CTX-Test (6 cell mode) for my old motors. Here are the results:-

Quick Test - 30 seconds @7.2 Volt

i) MM-01 : M = 2.37 A = 1.70
ii) JSM-01 : M = 2.75 A = 2.01
iii) JSM-02 : M = 2.58 A = 1.86
iv) JSM-03 : M = 2.83 A = 1.95

CTX-Test @6 cell mode

i) MM-01 : Peak Amp = 2.19 Average Amp = 1.19
ii) JSM-01 : Peak Amp = 2.84 Average Amp = 1.46
iii) JSM-02 : Peak Amp = 2.52 Average Amp = 1.41
iv) JSM-03 : Peak Amp = 2.60 Average Amp = 1.53

Based on the numbers above and also based on the postings (which recommend to use the average amp draw), is it correct to say that motor JSM-01 is the best motor (under Quick Test) and JSM-03 the best of the lot under CTX-Test?

Which method is more reliable? But of course i would agree that it would be best to test the motors on the track!

Your help is highly appreciated.
Thanks.
It's really tough to say without running the motors on a proper dyno that puts a load on the motors. Theoretically, the motors with the highest amp draw should make the most power all other things equal. However, the amp draw can increase from things other than the power draw of the motor. Internal friction or drag in the motor will also increase amp draw.

Did you measure the RPM of the motors as well? That may help you to rule out friction. If a motor is making more RPM, and has higher amp draw it may indicate that it is a superior performer. This ignores torque though, so again, it's not a completely reliable measure.

The best thing you could do would be to find someone at a shop or at the track that has a proper dyno and get them to do a pull on each of the motors.
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Old 01-04-2007, 02:20 AM   #2532
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BigDaddyT,

Thanx for the pointers.

FYI, i have done the motor cleaning before the test was done. Since the motors are really worn out (due to bashing and no break-in) screeching sound could be heard and the rev of the motors do not sound good either.

I will try to record the RPM in the next session. Too lazy to hold the motor at the side of the motor checker to have the rpm reading.

But what about the break-in procedure for new motors?
From what i gathered and advised, here's the list:-

Johnson/Mabuichi - 1.0V for ??? (have never done it before)

Tamiya Sport Tune - 1.0V for as long as you could do it...i did it for 12 hours with sufficient air blowing the motor and occasional bushing applied on the endbell. Testing from the motor checker confirmed that the new motor was really fast compared to my old sport tune...the difference is phenomenal - tested the motors (on-load) at the track.

23 turn motor - 5 min at 4.0V

Regards,
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Old 01-04-2007, 02:28 AM   #2533
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyT
My thinking is that most of the heat is generated at the brush/comm junction - the power flows through that point, arcing, and it is the single greatest friction point on the motor.

That said, the can and magnets are the most massive/dense part of the motor and end up being the primary heatsink for the system. Cooling down the can and magnets would have the effect of drawing more heat away from the endbell while it's running. So, I agree that they are very important.

My 2 cents is that a good deal of motor fade has to do with the temperature of the comm and brush faces. Cavities and horizontal slots across the face of the brushes seem to decrease fade. My personal theory is that it's because there is more airflow on the face of the brush.

Really tough one to measure though..... mostly theoretical. I'm really interested to hear what others think as well.
I think motor fade is mostly down to can/mag getting to hot because as you said they being the heat sink/dense part !
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Old 01-04-2007, 03:02 AM   #2534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR JOLLY
I think motor fade is mostly down to can/mag getting to hot because as you said they being the heat sink/dense part !
I agree with that to a point but think that it's a case of the brushes on the comm generate the heat which is transfered to the can/mags then the temp of the can and mags get to a point that they can't disepate any more heat any quicker (the surface of the can is only able to get rid of a certain amount at any given time) which in turn means more heat builds up at the comm/brushes which in turn results in fade. It's kind of like a tap on a water tank you can open the tap all the way but it will only allow a certain amount of water to flow through it, so if the water tank was being filled (heat building up at the comm/brushes as you race) at a higher rate than the tap can release it, it would eventually over flow (more heat building at the comm/brushes = motor fade).
Hope that made sense
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Old 01-04-2007, 03:11 PM   #2535
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but then if we can get a good can heat sink this in turn will keep the motor cooler longer & no Motor fade

can/mag get to hot = motor fade
just remember this
there is a Plastic Endbell between the can & brush/comm & i have allways taken measurments from the can & not the arm through the can vents (as this gives you a false reading), so i`ve been told & taught

so if get the can to dissapate more Heat quicker then this in turn will keep the comm/brush cooler ??
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