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Old 11-20-2005, 02:49 PM   #2221
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Originally Posted by danjoy25
Need help guys, How do you center a magnetic field in a stock motor? A friend showed me a stock motor without the shims in both bushings and the armature was still hitting the endbell bushings.
The bushings might not be fully seated into the can and endbell, or its the wrong armature for the can. I know TOP and EPIC arms are slightly different lengths - because I need to shim my epic stock arms and not my top stock arms on my lathe
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Old 11-20-2005, 03:00 PM   #2222
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Originally Posted by danjoy25
Need help guys, How do you center a magnetic field in a stock motor? A friend showed me a stock motor without the shims in both bushings and the armature was still hitting the endbell bushings.
danjoy,

Using only the armature, can and endbell, you spin the armature by hand (no brushes or springs) and see where the magnetic field centers the armature within the can as it comes to a stop.

By trial and error, you will be able to determine the correct number of brass and/or teflon washers to use on each end of the armature. You don't want to eliminate all the play...leave 1-2 thousandths of play in each direction.

To be able to spin the armature effectively, you may want to throw a pinion on the shaft to get a good hold.

Stock motors have brass bushings. I always position a teflon washer against the can/endbell bushing as opposed to having a brass one against the bushing. I also polish the face of both bushings (but not the inside where the shaft goes).
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Old 11-20-2005, 03:08 PM   #2223
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Originally Posted by JRX-S Bill
danjoy,

Using only the armature, can and endbell, you spin the armature by hand (no brushes or springs) and see where the magnetic field centers the armature within the can as it comes to a stop.
That is what we did and the armature was still moving towards the endbell bushing.

So I think it either the endbell bushing is not seated properly or its a different armature.
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Old 11-20-2005, 03:23 PM   #2224
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Hows the MVP rate against the monsters and p2k's assuming one knows how to gear motors properly? I like both the moster and p2k2 and am now runnng a core stock. I like the core as it came shimmed pretty decent out of the box and just feels like a quality motor. The comm on it looks a different color than I've seen but they all run good, and my monsters and p2ks seem to last forever.

I run 1/12 scale roadcoarse and 1/10 electric truck.
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Old 11-20-2005, 03:26 PM   #2225
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Hows the MVP rate against the monsters and p2k's assuming one knows how to gear motors properly?
Not very good. The MVP/Core/Hellfire/TOP stocks are quite a way off the Epic stocks.
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Old 11-20-2005, 03:57 PM   #2226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danjoy25
Need help guys, How do you center a magnetic field in a stock motor? A friend showed me a stock motor without the shims in both bushings and the armature was still hitting the endbell bushings.
Im the guy with this stuffed can

the motor was a fast one until I did 350+ laps continusly with 13 packs over 6 hours only stopping for a smoke between runs

this can is pulling the armature across to the end bell without any shimming the armature is about 2mm from the front of the motor when you take the endbell off

we tried zapping it with a thunderrc zapper if that was done correct I have no idea but it didnt seem to fix the magnetic feild

im not having a winge about my motor being wrecked as I was punishing it to see how far it would go and after 6 hours I was still doing 13.2 second laps at the Sydney Windsor track Dan will tell you for stock 13.2 is pretty fast.

all i wanted to see is if zapping the can correctly would return the armature to the center of the can.

cheers

Hyperform motors 350+ laps continusly and still pull sick lap times how mad is that
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Old 11-20-2005, 08:01 PM   #2227
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SushiGuy-

Evo 3 is a great car, you don't really need anything newer and in stock the shaft is great for quickness.

If you really want to go fast you need the "good" brushes in the motor either 4499 or 4505 or 4503 or light speed, etc(and properly broke in). but beware it is harder on the comm and you will not be blazing fast for 9 runs as they will fall of after a few runs. If your club is very competitive you will have to cut your comm every 4 runs or so to win the A main.

With an off the shelf mass produced motor its somewhat hit or miss to get a fast motor. The fast motors are just as cheap as average motors from the hobby shop. An example you can buy the mass produced monster stock at my local hobby shop for $38 OR you can buy an Axiom, putnam, Kisbey, (all highly recommended) for about $40 at some hobby shops or more likely mail order.The work that the smaller motors tuners put into their motors is a great bargain and these motors will be faster than 98percent of the mass produced motors.

Batteries- sorry to say yours suck. Voltage is VERY important in stock. Look at the new IB3800's . You can buy 1.19's for $40 to 60. Look at some of the motor guys web sites (Brood I think and others on this board) that have batteries, they are never before seen bargains. 3300 and 3700 are so bad compared to what the IB voltages are now that many hobby shops can't even sell them.

Bearings- Metal shielded bearings are the cheapest bearings and very free of friction if kept clean. Just about as good as ceramic bearings when clean and lubed.

ESC- I have a KO vsf1 comp, I am not sure of the features in your ko esc.
ESC setting is very important. Make sure current limiter is off, max punch for stock. VERY IMPORTANT for stock racing. The ko staff answers questions on the vsf1 thread, ask questions there or call ko.

Gearing- Getting a gearing setting from somebody else is only the start. TRY going up a couple of teeth and down a couple of teeth(one at a time) and see if you hit the sweet spot on the motor where the motor is as fast as it can be. Different drivers will use different gearing for the same equipment. Gearing on a small tight track for a monster stock is fdr 7.0-7.2. I usually run 6.8 on my local tracks. Gearing is one thing that is trial; and error. Just to give you an example of how important the right gearing is- At a race I had the fastest truck by far with the right gearing, sooo fast that the otherdrivers were demoralized and lapped by my truck(T3). The next week I loaned my truck to somebody else as I could not attend the race. This other person went down 1 tooth to get more punch. Well the truck went to the back of the pack. I watched the 2nd qualifier and saw my truck at the back of the pack. I put the right pinion back on the truck for the main. The truck was back up to speed and setting a new track record. So moral of the story- The right gearing is key to having a fast A main winning car.

Good Luck
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Old 11-20-2005, 08:14 PM   #2228
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Shushiman- 8 for fdr with a monster stock? That's okay if your track is about the size of my pool table. I would bet that is your problem with being pulled down the straight. TRF415's are fast but that driver may be just guessing on his gearing. I would double check that gearing. That sounds like gearing for a stock quad mag motor. Illegal at most/some tracks. Better to spend some time getting your own gearing. I recommend going to Big Jim's (RIP) web site and reading up on motors.
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Old 11-20-2005, 08:31 PM   #2229
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I'm not the guy Sushi Man is talking about...... 8.0 FDR is a fairly common ratio for our track. 75x40 I think are the dimensions. I start at a 8.0 FDR... mind you this is with rubber tires (usually 63-64mm in dia).

I usually end up at a 7.8-8.3 FDR... But it's all dependent on batteries, condition of the motor, overall performance of the motor, driving style, chassis setup... and many other things. And trust me..... I was a follower of Big Jim. I even learned how to wind electric motors from him.... I geared for laptimes, and it has never failed me.

-Korey
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Old 11-20-2005, 08:43 PM   #2230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sushi Boy
I'm not the guy Sushi Man is talking about...... 8.0 FDR is a fairly common ratio for our track. 75x40 I think are the dimensions. I start at a 8.0 FDR... mind you this is with rubber tires (usually 63-64mm in dia).

I usually end up at a 7.8-8.3 FDR... But it's all dependent on batteries, condition of the motor, overall performance of the motor, driving style, chassis setup... and many other things. And trust me..... I was a follower of Big Jim. I even learned how to wind electric motors from him.... I geared for laptimes, and it has never failed me.

-Korey
my local track is close to the size of y ours also...i run rubber tires as well and i gear in the same area you do....that is a great starting point
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Old 11-21-2005, 07:46 PM   #2231
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DANJOY: Just remember that as soon as you apply current to the arm, it will try to shift anyway...Don't spend a ton of time trying to align something that may not matter once the arm sees current.
Run the motor in the car once or twice, then look at the wear patterns in the bushings. This will tell you which direction to shim the arm to eliminate it from applying alot of pressure to one of the bushings...
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Old 11-21-2005, 07:48 PM   #2232
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Todd Putnam...i just want to say thanks for the excellent green shunt brushes you produce
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Old 11-21-2005, 07:50 PM   #2233
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Todd,

You see "wear patterns in the bushings". I am clueless about what this means. Please describe.

Thanks.

Bill
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Old 11-21-2005, 07:56 PM   #2234
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bill....you look to see if the shims on the arm are showing more wear on the endbell or the can bushing.......
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Old 11-21-2005, 07:58 PM   #2235
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Charles,Just because the IB's have the voltage dont mean their faster on the track.. The IB's i have dont seem to have the punch that the GP's do.I have a few packs of Orion's(GP's)That are in the high 1.19's and yet they don't seem to preform any better than my Pro match 33's that are in the 1.18's.And for gearing on a small carpet track if you go below 8.0 your going to be flat in 2 min..if you dip into the 7's you will smoke the motor..but this is just an opinion..But this is on my track and it also depends on track layout.
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