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Old 11-18-2005, 03:50 PM   #2206
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I believe that there's a distinct difference between motor tuners and motor builders/motor companies.

Like Eddie said, only a handful of motor companies actually have a Quillen, Hines, etc; spin balancer...most motor tuners do not. Out of the handful of motor companies that have them, even a fewer number use them on stock arms. Most just use them for balancing their hand-wound mod arms. Only the really cool motor companies balance machine wound stock/19 turn arms... lol

I like to refer to companies who just buy stocks and install brushes, cut comms, and dyno, etc; "motor tuners," as they are just tuning motors, just like you could do to a handout at a race. These companies mostly do it as a secondary side job/hobby, and don't do it full time. Their primary source of income is earned by working full time at other careers, and do the motor gig on the side. They do sell a decent product, but are only capable of offering a fraction of what motor companies can offer.

"Motor builders" or "motor companies," in my opinion, actually have the ability to wind and balance their own handwound armatures, in addition to balancing and blueprinting machine wound stocks and 19 turn motors. Most have our own proprietary brush compounds manufactured instead of buying other companies brushes OEM. We also earn our livings by building motors/selling motors/products full time, and it is our primary source of income.

There's nothing wrong with being a tuner vs. a builder, as both are capable of offering a good product...but that is why most tuners can't offer a balancing service, since a tool that expensive isn't practical for someone to own who is only tuning motors part time.

Hope this helps...
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Old 11-18-2005, 04:38 PM   #2207
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Another thing to remember guys is that there are some motor builders out there that balance their arms and they fly apart from either using too big a hole or too deep of a hole and get into the webbing of the armature. Some will replace them but some wont (ask Josh Cyrul).

Also even though you cant prove its been rebalanced unless its a horrible job, it is illegal according to Roar rules to re-balance a stock armature.

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Old 11-18-2005, 05:22 PM   #2208
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very well said Todd
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Old 11-18-2005, 06:05 PM   #2209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper1
Most go by color for Springs choices but if you do that you will need to stay with the same manufactor as they are all diffrent,which is why I rate my own with my integy spring checker,I use to use a fiddle stick but it was to inconsistent.

The stronger spring goes on the positive side of the motor.One thing that will be throwing people a loop now is the new batch of batteries require you to detune the motors a black art in itself.
De-tune the motors? Why?

The 3800's are heavier than the 3300's, but they put out more voltage.
So if the 3800's at 30 amps are putting out 1.21 (Highe estimate)
And the 3300 is putting out 1.18. Thats only .03 per cell or .18 volts for the whole pack. Its not like your running a whole nother cell or anything. And the extra weight of the 3800 reduces some of the vehicles acceleration and speed. I think just maybe gearing down a tooth wil do the trick.

I've been running 3300/3800 back to back with no gearing changes, and the 3800's just seem a bit faster. But as far as tuning goes, I haven't had to make any changes. If anything, maybe just go to stiffer springs to get a bit more torque and reduce the repulsive force on the positive brush. (thats why they use stiffer springs on the positive, the electrons acctually push the brush away as they go from the comm to the brush)
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Old 11-18-2005, 06:11 PM   #2210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper1
I remove & polish the inside face of both bushings and also take a 1/8th reamer to the shaft hole of both bushings,this insures the trueness of both bushings,take a look at motortuningsecrets.com for a detailed method of how to take care of your bushings and motors.


AHHHHH.

Don't "Polish" bushings by using any sort of abrasive compounds!

BAD BAD BAD.

Why do people keep doing this

ONLY ever cut them with a reamer if you think its really necessary. But, most likely you are going to cut the hole out of round unless you put the endbell and can on a machine and dial in the center of the hole within .0005"

The other option is to hone the bushings, but that can be very difficult. Try finding a hone that is .125...
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Old 11-18-2005, 10:06 PM   #2211
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PitCrew - just a couple drops of comm break in, and run for 2 to 4 seconds, this will increase the size, but if you do this, keep it oiled.... after every run... You will get more RPM out if ...
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Old 11-19-2005, 12:41 AM   #2212
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For awhile....

But the arm shaft is now going to wobble in the bushing, shortening its life as the shaft eventually eggs out the bushing. Also when that starts to happen, the brushes are going to bounce, decreasing performance.

I have stock motors that are over 2 years old, with lots of runs on them, and they are still fast.

For the small amount of performance you MIGHT gain for a few weeks......doesn't seem worth it to me.
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Old 11-19-2005, 12:57 AM   #2213
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DO all the fast guys just have faster motors than me? i mean they just pull away from me on the straight.....
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Old 11-19-2005, 01:48 AM   #2214
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You have Brood motor company in Washington. If you want to go faster get one of his motors.

To answer your question please tell me what kind of car you are driving, motor, # of runs since last cut comm, springs, brushes, gearing, surface, batteries, tires, esc setting, body, wing, settings on your radio, type of bearings, how have you taken care of bearings, etc.... That should just about give us the right info to figure out why you are slower than somebody else.

But seriously, you could be one tooth off on your gearing and get pulled on the straight.
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Old 11-19-2005, 02:00 AM   #2215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sushi Man
DO all the fast guys just have faster motors than me? i mean they just pull away from me on the straight.....
Gear based off rollout, and asking the fast guys what they are geared at won't hurt
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Old 11-19-2005, 10:53 AM   #2216
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I drive a Tamiya Evo 3.... Yes, I geared my car the same ratio with another fast guy, I was using a monster stock, with 767. HArd spring on positive and slightly weaker spring on neg .( FOR MOTOR) Well last comm cut.. I didnt have a lathe, i just got one... so about the 9th run on it..., running on real ozite carpet, batteries.. using various... 3700 zapped, 3300SMC 1.77 at 30 amp, another mached, 3300 dont know company but 1.9 at 30 amp. ESC? well its a junky esc... a KO propo 1000..=(. My body was a protoform Alfpa 156. My radio,, its MX-A so there are no setting like on the good radios... My bearings are plain metal bearings. I try to put lubricent on them as much as I can for a smoother drive train... ONE tooth off... Im not sure, i could be.. =(. Guy told me to gear my monster around 8, so i did. (its a tight track)

Thanks for the help guys.
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Old 11-19-2005, 11:39 AM   #2217
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Wow...a few things here...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sushi Man
I drive a Tamiya Evo 3.... Yes, I geared my car the same ratio with another fast guy, I was using a monster stock, with 767. HArd spring on positive and slightly weaker spring on neg .( FOR MOTOR)
Is your monster just off-the-shelf, or from a motor builder, like Brood or EA?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sushi Man
Well last comm cut.. I didnt have a lathe, i just got one... so about the 9th run on it...,
Here's one reason your motor will not be up to speed, 9 runs without a cut when running hard brushes like 767s is not a good idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sushi Man
batteries.. using various... 3700 zapped, 3300SMC 1.77 at 30 amp, another mached, 3300 dont know company but 1.9 at 30 amp.
Batteries should be fine for stock, as long as they are well taken care of. Do you equalize them consistently? If you can, use the Spintec BatMan, it will really bring some punch back to your packs. Also, how do you charge them? For stock, either go with a 6A linear charge, or experiment with step charging. And if you have enough run time, you can always dead short your packs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sushi Man
ESC? well its a junky esc... a KO propo 1000..=(.
Don't know too much about the specs on that, but I don't think I would call it "junky"...it's at least a KO product
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sushi Man
My bearings are plain metal bearings. I try to put lubricent on them as much as I can for a smoother drive train...
No, no, no... Don't drown your bearings with lubricant, not good at all. You only want to use a small drop of a light oil, because oil will attract dirt and other crap. Soak your bearings overnight in WD-40, spray them out with (RPM Bearing Blaster is a great little tool) and then add a drop of oil. Also, since you have a shaft car, it will take some work to get everything smooth...start shimming.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sushi Man
ONE tooth off... Im not sure, i could be.. =(. Guy told me to gear my monster around 8, so i did. (its a tight track)
If the track is that tight, use a higher torque motor, like the P2K2, or gear lower than 8. Monster is geared around 6-6.5 on asphalt. That's why you are getting pulled on in the straight.
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Old 11-19-2005, 11:48 AM   #2218
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Thanks a lot Xray, the motor is the normal deals, the revenge of the monster.

Yes i tray my Batts, after every run or when they starting dying on the track. I usally dont dead short becuase i want my batts to last longer (not runtime, over time) Icant afford the spintech. =( , well the guy tht told me to gear at 8 always runs there and is very fast. I might go down about one tooth next time (he has a 415ms). Thanks for the help.
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Old 11-19-2005, 11:53 AM   #2219
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I'm quite new to this hobby and bought the trinity epic pro motor, the roar legal.
Whats a good gearing for these motor, are they rpmish or torquish? and would appreciate if you could give me tips on how to make them faster...thanks in advance
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Old 11-20-2005, 02:24 PM   #2220
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Need help guys, How do you center a magnetic field in a stock motor? A friend showed me a stock motor without the shims in both bushings and the armature was still hitting the endbell bushings.
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