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Old 08-17-2004, 10:03 PM   #1846
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Just think of it this way, a motor that is drawing alot is always less efficient than a motor that draws less. A motor that draws less will run cooler, usually perform better over a race because it will not overheat and kill the mags.

-Korey
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Old 08-17-2004, 10:07 PM   #1847
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brian McGreevy
Not always Kevin...high amp draw can mean crappy motor, bushing binding or not-well-seated brushes, too. I have a friend who's motors almost always draw 3-5 amps and they're always fast as sh%t.
Haha, yeah. You are 100% correct on that one. I forgot to add that. Binding bushings, and non seated brushes cause higher amp draws. That is why you need to break in the motor (brushes) and the bushings. But you forgot to add one thing Brian: Brush hoods that are not aligned cause higher amp draws, and do other wierd things......just make sure they are aligned!

You are correct that SOME lower amp draws from stock motors can be fast...but I am speaking from the general trend!

-Kevin
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Old 08-17-2004, 10:09 PM   #1848
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sushi Boy
Just think of it this way, a motor that is drawing alot is always less efficient than a motor that draws less. A motor that draws less will run cooler, usually perform better over a race because it will not overheat and kill the mags.

-Korey
That is true, but with our days' GP3300 cells, they can take that. Fade and Runtime are the least of my worries in a 5 minute stock race. The lower amp drawing motors are USUALLY (haha...Brian, I stuck that one in for you! ) the weaker ones.

-Kevin
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Old 08-17-2004, 11:01 PM   #1849
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Well, I'm never convinced untill I put a load on it like a turbo dyno. I've had some that draw 9 amps and some that draw 4 amps and they both perform very simlar on the dyno. Just depends I guess. Thats why I neve really think much about no load amp draw.

-Korey
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Old 08-18-2004, 02:00 AM   #1850
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I raced tonight my final race with my Orion Stock Core. I am sick and tired of guessing gearing on a motor nobody else is running. I'm going to take you up on that Monster Mr. Hicks, unless I go out and buy one before 2 wks time (most probably)
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Old 08-18-2004, 04:18 AM   #1851
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Default In my opinion

No load amp draw means NOTHING.

Ymmv


You can go to Big Jims forum and read a LOT of stuff. You will learn how to tune a stock motor as good as anyone around. Its a lot of reading and you have to sift through some bull too. But in the end you will be a good or even great tuner. Link to be posted.
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Old 08-18-2004, 09:20 AM   #1852
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All I can say is what I have founds. And the motors that I make which pull more amps with no load tend to be faster than the ones that I build which don't pull as many. This is my honest opinion.

-Kevin
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Old 08-18-2004, 01:11 PM   #1853
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LIL input for the newwer guys or guys not at the top level yet.
In the following motor's use the following brushes:

Reedy MVP,Orion Core,Peak Hellfire,or Integy Atlas Stock:
Reedy 767 on both sides for bigger tracks.
Reedy 767 on + and a Reedy 766 with a hole drilled on the -
for small to medium sized tracks or offroad.
The Stock Orion Brush that comes in the cores and hellfire's is also nice for small-medium sized tracks.
*Note* All brushes used in Reedy,Orion,Peak,and Integy(Atlas) motor's need to be narrowed the BIGJIM way.This means narrowing the face of the brush.This causes less overhang and will reduce the shorting out of the motor causing less heat.
These motor's also HATE Putnam and Trinity Brushes.
In sedan if someone is running a 100/37 with trinity motor's then you need to be running a 100/39-41 with a core fixed right.They LOVE to run a taller gear or actually need it.Same thing with MVP's.
Same issue when running Reedy Quad Magnet 19's against Trinity Chameleon's.

I personally run a 767 on the + and a 766 on the negative on almost all tracks onroad and off.The 766 will make the 767 and the com last longer.Take the tip of the exacto knife to the very center of the 766 brush and start turning the knife creating a hole.Go as big as you like and experiement.This will reduce surface area which will in turn help cool and increase RPM in these already torquey motor's.Drilling a hole in the brush will sometimes burn the brush taking away the naturaly lubricant of the brush.


Trinity,Epic motor's like Putnams,Hurricane Golds,4499's or 99 plus's,767 or 766's.

***VERY IMPORTANT NOTE***
Guys lets be honest here.If your NOT in the top 3 of your class for now QUIT wasting your money on hot brushes.It's simply a waste of money while you learn Lines on the track,setup and what changes will do to your car.When you learn all this and notice that the ONLY thing holding you back is performance THEN and ONLY then step up to brushes like Putnams.While fast the wear EXTREMELLY fast.Greens one's expecially.
So use a 766 which will take 2-3 runs to simply break in if you dont know how to break them in and will just get faster and faster but will last 3-5x's longer than most other brushes.
Drill holes in them or whatever to reduce surface area and you have a great brush.
Instead of using OTHER people's setup's or motor's why not try to learn for yourself so if you need help you can just ask yourself.
I have noticed alot of LAZY racers the last 2-3 yrs.They expect to be fast in 3-4 months but dont know how to set the droop of a car.Amazing.I wish all you guys luck and I hope you enjoy the hobby but lets get our racing priorities in line before we go wasting money.
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Old 08-18-2004, 01:29 PM   #1854
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Quote:
Originally posted by TexRacer

B]***VERY IMPORTANT NOTE***[/B]
Guys lets be honest here.If your NOT in the top 3 of your class for now QUIT wasting your money on hot brushes.It's simply a waste of money while you learn Lines on the track,setup and what changes will do to your car.When you learn all this and notice that the ONLY thing holding you back is performance THEN and ONLY then step up to brushes like Putnams.While fast the wear EXTREMELLY fast.Greens one's expecially.
So use a 766 which will take 2-3 runs to simply break in if you dont know how to break them in and will just get faster and faster but will last 3-5x's longer than most other brushes.
Drill holes in them or whatever to reduce surface area and you have a great brush.
Instead of using OTHER people's setup's or motor's why not try to learn for yourself so if you need help you can just ask yourself.
I have noticed alot of LAZY racers the last 2-3 yrs.They expect to be fast in 3-4 months but dont know how to set the droop of a car.Amazing.I wish all you guys luck and I hope you enjoy the hobby but lets get our racing priorities in line before we go wasting money. [/B]
THANKS 4 ALL OF THAT, EPECIALLY THIS PART . It's like you describing me a month or so ago .
I got a couple med. garbage bags full of stuff-- different brushes, springs, motors, spares, carbide diff balls, you name it; now since I've been wasting money on stuff that I want, now I'm scraping money together to get stuff that I need i.e.- SET-UP EQUIPMENT, LATHE, and a couple other items. So yeah, your words are well taken.

- jaybee
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Old 08-18-2004, 01:47 PM   #1855
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Has anyone tried the new Orion/Peak V2 stock endbell? good/bad?
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Old 08-18-2004, 01:50 PM   #1856
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Quote:
Originally posted by TexRacer
LIL input for the newwer guys or guys not at the top level yet.
In the following motor's use the following brushes:

Reedy MVP,Orion Core,Peak Hellfire,or Integy Atlas Stock:
Reedy 767 on both sides for bigger tracks.
Reedy 767 on + and a Reedy 766 with a hole drilled on the -
for small to medium sized tracks or offroad.
The Stock Orion Brush that comes in the cores and hellfire's is also nice for small-medium sized tracks.
*Note* All brushes used in Reedy,Orion,Peak,and Integy(Atlas) motor's need to be narrowed the BIGJIM way.This means narrowing the face of the brush.This causes less overhang and will reduce the shorting out of the motor causing less heat.
These motor's also HATE Putnam and Trinity Brushes.
In sedan if someone is running a 100/37 with trinity motor's then you need to be running a 100/39-41 with a core fixed right.They LOVE to run a taller gear or actually need it.Same thing with MVP's.
Same issue when running Reedy Quad Magnet 19's against Trinity Chameleon's.

I personally run a 767 on the + and a 766 on the negative on almost all tracks onroad and off.The 766 will make the 767 and the com last longer.Take the tip of the exacto knife to the very center of the 766 brush and start turning the knife creating a hole.Go as big as you like and experiement.This will reduce surface area which will in turn help cool and increase RPM in these already torquey motor's.Drilling a hole in the brush will sometimes burn the brush taking away the naturaly lubricant of the brush.


Trinity,Epic motor's like Putnams,Hurricane Golds,4499's or 99 plus's,767 or 766's.

***VERY IMPORTANT NOTE***
Guys lets be honest here.If your NOT in the top 3 of your class for now QUIT wasting your money on hot brushes.It's simply a waste of money while you learn Lines on the track,setup and what changes will do to your car.When you learn all this and notice that the ONLY thing holding you back is performance THEN and ONLY then step up to brushes like Putnams.While fast the wear EXTREMELLY fast.Greens one's expecially.
So use a 766 which will take 2-3 runs to simply break in if you dont know how to break them in and will just get faster and faster but will last 3-5x's longer than most other brushes.
Drill holes in them or whatever to reduce surface area and you have a great brush.
Instead of using OTHER people's setup's or motor's why not try to learn for yourself so if you need help you can just ask yourself.
I have noticed alot of LAZY racers the last 2-3 yrs.They expect to be fast in 3-4 months but dont know how to set the droop of a car.Amazing.I wish all you guys luck and I hope you enjoy the hobby but lets get our racing priorities in line before we go wasting money.
This is very true. "If you can't control the speed, you don't need it" This is basically saying that if you cannot get around the track without hitting boards, then don't be worrying about making a FASTER car, worry about DRIVING and SETUP.

As for the 766's and 767's, I have not had much experience at all with the Top based stock motors. With Epic based stock motors (Trinity Monster), I agree that you get more wear out of the 767's and 766's with pretty good performance. I have tried them in my motors, and have not liked them as much as a 4499, or Hurricane Gold. But for someone at a moderate level of racing, 766's and 767's are ideal.

-Kevin
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Old 08-18-2004, 01:55 PM   #1857
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Quote:
Originally posted by etzkev
All I can say is what I have founds. And the motors that I make which pull more amps with no load tend to be faster than the ones that I build which don't pull as many. This is my honest opinion.

-Kevin
i am gonna have to agree with kevin. in off road, using a paradox, midnight, p2k, orion core, p2k2, etc etc, i have always built my motors for max amp draw with just a fan. and i win more then my share of races. when running on road i have done this also. at the recent nats in portland i listened to the "pros" and did the cut brush stuff and low amp draw with the mvp. it was ok but not "killer" fast. with a bone stock mvp after about 4-5 runs i was pulling over 8 amps with only a fan. that motor was a killer fast motor. but i made the mistake of taking a little cut on the comm to clean it up and it never ran the same, and still doesn't. so maybe there isn't a one size fits all answer to this. as everyone knows you can buy 5 of whatever brand motor and all 5 will dyno different. so then wouldn't it make sense that it would take 5 different set ups to make them fast. just my thoughts and experience so don't kill me.
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Old 08-18-2004, 04:22 PM   #1858
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My friend is using a monster that pulls crazy amps compared to all his other motors. He dumps shortly after 5 mins like a mod but its stock.It very fast.
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Old 08-18-2004, 04:33 PM   #1859
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Has anyone ever noticed how much difference there is in tuned stock motors. Ive looked at the so called "Pro" tuned motors and ive seen a varience of 4k rpm(18k-22k) and 9-10 of torque. And as far as the Epic B2's ive seen some reall good Monsters pulling as good numbers as the best B2 ive seen. What i hate is going to a place like so cal raceway where they have tons of motors but they are low numbers and you know the fast guys there arent using them. This one guy said he was stock but his car was way faster than my friends 19t. Hmmm
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Old 08-18-2004, 07:07 PM   #1860
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etzkev I gotta agree with you on all the points you made except one.

I run monsters in stock with putnam brushes (green blue combo) with purple/ red springs, and I get ridiculous life out of them. The only putnam brush I've ever burnt was when a bearing collapsed in my TC3. Usually i replace the putnams when they get so short that I think they are significantly affecting the spring tension or starting to cock in the brush hoods.

I don't use any com drops, and simply clean the com with a com stick lightly between races. I usually only cut them every 8 - 10 runs as they don't seem to lose any significant power untill at least 10 runs. i have reserrated them before but I'm not convinced this is necessary if they are already well seated to the com.

As for how fast they are, I'm no A main driver but I'm very rarely outdone for motor speed anywhere on the track. And I often tune motors for a couple of friends who are A main drivers at a National Level here in Australia.

I recommend the green blue Putnam combo for all the stock racers at my local club. I just make sure they use relatively heavy springs (red/red minimum) and don't use straight greens.

i don't know how this translates to other stock motor though as I've been using Monsters pretty much exclusively of late. I am going to start playing with an MVP in the next couple of weeks though, it will be interesting to see how it compares.
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