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Old 08-02-2005, 12:02 PM   #16
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Personally, I'm trying to hold out for the Spintec Individual Cell Charger. Until then, it's a Reedy Quasar Pro. Here's a link to the Spintec ICC thread:

http://www.rctech.net/forum/showthre...hlight=spintec
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Old 08-02-2005, 01:35 PM   #17
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With my charging/ discharging method, the 4 packs of Fusion 3300 cells that I have, I'm putting in on average about 4100maH. These packs are close to 6mnths old and I'm racing them 4-5 times a month. I have two packs of SMC 3300 cells, use them the same amount of time, and putting close to 4350mah on average into them. These packs are close to 4mnths old. My last pack is a Orion RDS 3700 pack, same usage, about 3mnths old and on average I'm putting close to 4500maH into 'em. Awesome pack I got from a LHS. I couldn't believe it. With everything I've learn, read and been told, a really good 3300 pack on average should be getting close to 42/4300maH (depending on usage and maintenance regimen). The more you put in, the more you'll get out. When you think about it- if you're putting in 4300maH and during a 5minute run you use up 3300maH, that's a 1000maH left. The BIG plus is that you're further back (or left) on the discharge curve and that's a GOOD thing! Meaning that your pack has rip in that 4/4.5minute range. And I know we all want that -JB
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Old 08-03-2005, 08:48 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grazianos
Personally, I'm trying to hold out for the Spintec Individual Cell Charger. Until then, it's a Reedy Quasar Pro. Here's a link to the Spintec ICC thread:

http://www.rctech.net/forum/showthre...hlight=spintec
I'm with you there dude ! ....personally, I dun see what's the differences between all the latest chargers and my Tekin BC112 (They either overcharge some or undercharge some of the cells in the pack) Over time even the BEST matched packs become "unmatched"
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Old 08-03-2005, 05:35 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayBee
They use those because the flaws in them can be manipulated (from what I've been told). Did I just say that? No really, it's prolly because it'll be REALLY EXPENSIVE to switch over to anything else, so I see why they stick to what they've got. Not to mention the learning curve. But you can't sit there with a straight face and tell me that while electronics have gotten increasingly BETTER over the last 10 years plus some, NO battery charger/discharger hasn't been able to outdo the CE line of chargers. And if I use that same line of thought, every racer would have a charger out of the CE lineup -JB
Yeah, it would be expensive for most to switch over, but companies like Trinity, SMC, Team Orion (should I continue to list huge matchers) could afford to switch over at the blink of an eye if there was a better technology. Hell, Team Orion just switched from their custom Lavco machines to CE.

Yeah you may be able to manulipulate numbers with CE equipment, but I guarantee that the numbers can also be manulipulated with any other manufactures machine as well so that is not a valid argument. For companies whose sole source of income is from battery matching, it would be suicide not too use the best technology.

What about the countless companies every year that start matching. They have no previous investment in other matching equipment so if they are starting fresh, cost is not the issue, learning curve may be, but not cost. So why do they use CE? There is something to be said for standardizing and that could be a point of using CE...trying to compare apples to apples...don't know...just a thought.

I have nothing against the new charges and I have even purchased some (I purchased the Much more and several others in the last several months to test with them). I am saying that the CE stuff is time tested, racer tested and performance tested! None of the new stuff out there can say that. I have seen many try the new chargers only to sell them and revert back to CE. It's easy to use, it's durable and it works.

Honestly, I can say that I do not think that any company to date has been able to outperform CE with there stuff...yes including the new chargers. Are the new chargers really better? I havent seen anything to prove that. Are the new charging cycles better for batteries? I have seen no proof of that? Personaly, I didn't notice a difference in performance between my batteries that were charged with a GFX and the Much More charger.

And yes, EVERY top level racer does have a CE charger! Even those that are not sponsored by CE still have a CE charger. Look at the pits in most races, even when racers are sponsored by and use an Novak charger (for example) they still have a CE unit sitting right there.

This is not to start an argument, just stating my opinion as I have used a lot of the new chargers out there, all different price points, tried different profiles and just didn't notice a difference. In fact many of the new chargers gave me problems (probably due to the fact that I don't read japanese very well). So after messing around with three different chargers, I sold them on ebay and bought another GFX (making that number 3).

Many racers I race with have also doine the same. But who knows, maybe in another 10 years, the new chargers of today will prove to be better, but for right now, I just don't see it.

And there is something to be said for the fact that CE stuff is made in the USA and they have incredible customer service that cannot be beat. I would hate to try and send a Team Much More charger back to the manufacter for a programming update (can their chargers even be updated...probably not and they have come out with 3-4 different versions of their charger in the same time frame that the CE GFX has been out).

Just food for thought!!
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Old 08-03-2005, 06:00 PM   #20
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koabich it took you a few days to come up with that line of reasoning (who'd you talk to? J/K) My 'rebuttal'- PROTRAK -JB
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Old 08-03-2005, 07:34 PM   #21
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I think CE is good but may not the best. Everybody use CE also dose not mean it is the best. It only shows that it has the largest market share. BTW, does the market has any other matchers like CE. I don't think so. This is why everybody want to have a CE for reference. It is so important for a racer to know how good or how bad the pack is. So it need a reference point. However a factory match pack using CE matcher to give you the reference. Then what you need to do is to use the closest product to do so. Will you use a pitbull to do the same way? I don't think so. To create a factory standard/reference is the most succeed point that CE had done. Think about the OS we currently use. Is it the best OS over the market. No!! But it is the standard!!! CE is outstanding because not only the charging quality but also giving you a reference measurement. If in the very first begining, matcher is not CE product, the situation would be the same. BTW, nothing can provide a charging/discharing is good except do it on the track!!!
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Old 08-04-2005, 01:02 AM   #22
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Sound argument... point made. My sentiments in a nutshell. CE may be the 'standard' but it's DEFINITELY not the best -JB
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Old 08-04-2005, 06:59 AM   #23
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This thread has gotten really dumb. Xrcbuggy came here to ask a question. The first few posts I see fine. Then the whole point is thrown out with an argument. This is one of the reasons we lose people or draw them away from this hobby. Give some one a brand name, model name & the reason you like it. Anything other than that is not needed & becomes blabber. There are alot of downsides to alot of the chargers. The technology has changed & there are tons of great chargers. xrcbuggy here are some that I suggest as far as good high end chargers.

1. Competition Electronics
Pros: Great Chargers, Great Customer Service, Upgradable, Widely Used(If you need help someone could help you). Lots of bells & whistles.
Cons: Price, Size, Need to carry around a power supply.
I wouldn't recommend this charger unless you are gonna be in this hobby for the long haul. The price would be an investment for a new one(well atleast for me).

2. Integy(Indi)
Pros: Great Chargers, Great Customer Service, Widely Used(I alot of people use these chargers). Price(No investment needed, depending on the charger). Some have a built in power supply(less carrying around & weight.)
Cons: Not upgradable(Not Sure), Size(some of there chargers are bigger in size). Some need a power supply.

3. Duratrax Digital Peak & Ice chargers:
Pros: Great Chargers, Great Customer Service, Widely used, Price.
Cons: Needs a power supply(Ice Only), Not upgrable.

4. Novak Millenium & Mill Pro(Would have to buy used, no longer being made)
Pros: Great Chargers, Great Customer Service, Widely used, Price, Size.
Cons: Power supply needed, Have to buy used, Not Upgradable.

5. Lrp
Pros: Great Chargers, Great Customer Service, Widely used, Size, Price.
Cons: Power supply needed, Not upgradable.

There's surely more chargers out there. These are the ones that are used mostly in my area. There are two more that are used that I know nothing about. Reedy Quasar & a Futaba I never learned anything about these. Pick something that fits your budget & your need for the hobby. Don't skip a house payment just to get a charger. I currently own a CE Power Pro & Novak Mill & Mill Pro. Even though they are no longer made by the companies. I love all the chargers I got. I am in for the long haul, but cannot afford a $400.00 CE. Nor do I want to have to lug something that big around. I hope this helps you in some way shape or form.

Peace Aaron(W-W)
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Old 08-04-2005, 04:24 PM   #24
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Nice post wicked.

Im not focusing i any particular brand, but i consider important to have adjustable Dv(with large spectrum), lcd with most important info (mh, voltage). Temp sensor can be nice, although i dont have and dont miss it. Control over type of charge (linear, reflex). Some kind of audible alarm when pack is charged is nice to.

Until somebody proves me that those 200+euros chargers actually CHARGE better, anything beyhond this seems kind of waste os money. Just my thoughts.
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Old 08-25-2005, 09:06 PM   #25
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i own the Much More Cell Master and its great i noticed MORE punch and MORE run time with my charging method

The Cell master is a super liner charger and you can have the peak setting just the way you like it!

The step charging is great cuz you can set it up so you get maximum punch and you still get run time.
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Old 08-25-2005, 10:13 PM   #26
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Turbo 35, Muchmore CTX, Pulsar 2 Comp all are good chargers.
If your main consideration is the charge function (and budget is not a problem), go for ProTrak.
Looks old (like a table telephone ), but the best I've ever experienced with.
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Old 08-25-2005, 10:28 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayBee
With my charging/ discharging method, the 4 packs of Fusion 3300 cells that I have, I'm putting in on average about 4100maH. These packs are close to 6mnths old and I'm racing them 4-5 times a month. I have two packs of SMC 3300 cells, use them the same amount of time, and putting close to 4350mah on average into them. These packs are close to 4mnths old. My last pack is a Orion RDS 3700 pack, same usage, about 3mnths old and on average I'm putting close to 4500maH into 'em. Awesome pack I got from a LHS. I couldn't believe it. With everything I've learn, read and been told, a really good 3300 pack on average should be getting close to 42/4300maH (depending on usage and maintenance regimen). The more you put in, the more you'll get out. When you think about it- if you're putting in 4300maH and during a 5minute run you use up 3300maH, that's a 1000maH left. The BIG plus is that you're further back (or left) on the discharge curve and that's a GOOD thing! Meaning that your pack has rip in that 4/4.5minute range. And I know we all want that -JB
I would rather trust the mAh draws out during 25 or 30 Amps discharging sequence (with 0.9 cutoff). Every chargers have their different calibaration. When I use Turbo35 or Muchmore CTX, my batterys peak at 3300 to 3700mah, but in ProTrak they go up till 4700mah. Even different Turbo35 have different calibration. When they go to cycle sequence, the total mah draws out of the battery only 2800-3000mah. I believe this is the only effective mAh you get during a run.
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Old 08-25-2005, 11:47 PM   #28
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No argument from me but I've charged my packs on both of those other chargers and got a little less maH into my cells (between 200-400maH on average). The biggest difference of the cells performance in my experience is age and maintenance routine. And I am willing to bet anyone that you are not going to be putting 4700 maH into any cells with a routine of a .9 discharge cut-off... Sorry, won't happen -JB
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Old 08-26-2005, 12:05 AM   #29
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if i was to buy a Muchmore CTX, is the 10amp discharge rate adequate?

or do i buy a seperate discharger?


also does equilizers do equilizing AND discharging? or discharger and equilizer are seperate things?
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Old 08-26-2005, 12:35 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayBee
No argument from me but I've charged my packs on both of those other chargers and got a little less maH into my cells (between 200-400maH on average). The biggest difference of the cells performance in my experience is age and maintenance routine. And I am willing to bet anyone that you are not going to be putting 4700 maH into any cells with a routine of a .9 discharge cut-off... Sorry, won't happen -JB
No offense please. This is the point I'm talking about. I experience once with 4700mAh peaked charge and you never experienced it. Every charger has different calibration, even the same version and manufacturer. The same battery goes to different chargers and they peak charged at different mAh, but when you go to 30A discharge sequence with 0.9V cut-off (I use Turbo 35GFX for this), the mAh draws out of the battery is in similiar numbers.
For Example : I charged one SMC 3300 battery with ProTrak peaked at 4400mAh and with Turbo35 peaked at 3500mAH. When you go to discharge sequence, it only draws 3000mAH out of the battery. The 900mAh difference between the chargers is big enough to be ignored.
From that point, I trust the discharge sequence is the real-time function to know how much mAH your battery could put out during a run, no matter how much mAh you charged into the batt before.
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