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Old 02-24-2014, 02:46 AM   #1
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Default In general what upgrades actually help (Tamiya)

I'm planning on building a race car that can be competitive at a club level. The chassis will either be a ta06 or tb04 and could run a 21.5t/17.5t/13.5t/Silvercan system. My aim to have a car that will have consistent steering and a smooth drivetrain even at full lock steering. So I would like to know what hop ups will provide noticeable improvements to the handling.

So far I will get
1. TRF Special Damper Set
2. Double Cardan CVD Set for Front
3. Aluminium Racing Steering Arms
4. Aluminium Steering Bridge
5. Titanium Hex Screws

What other upgrades should I consider? Do aluminium suspension blocks help?
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Old 02-24-2014, 03:01 AM   #2
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The biggest problem with a lot of mid-range Tamiya kits is getting them to the right gear ratio for "stock" brushless motors - Tamiya only consider their home market an that means Tamiya Cup races with fixed gear ratios and unusual (by non-Japanese standards) electrics.

You will also find that Tamiya's mid-range cars are heavy.

If you are committed to Tamiya, a TRF chassis will be competitive with anything. If you want a project, go for the mid-rnage car, but don't be disappointed if the car lacks a certain something even if you have put TRF money into upgrades.

As far as performance enhancements go, of the ones you've listed the shocks are great, the DCJs make the car smoother if you run a front spool (standard choice for most conditions), the aluminium parts may be stronger and more precise which is useful in the steering but bear in mind that neither the TA06 or TB04 have a truly symmetrical steering action (due to free play in the linkages) so it will never be as precise as a TRF car. Titanium screws save weight but won't get the heavy cars down to a normal cars weight. Aluminium suspension mounts are also stronger.

You can go crazy with Tamiya parts if you want. Another thing that people may do is swap the soft plastic parts for the harder carbon-filled parts, you'll often find that the plastic shock towers flex before the shocks compress which makes the handling a bit vague, etc etc etc...

At the end of the day, even a competitive chassis needs to be driven well to actually compete.

PS I write this as a fan of Tamiya but also as a realist!
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Old 02-24-2014, 03:59 AM   #3
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Some very good information. I most certainly can't expect TRF handling considering at the end of the day, I have plastic tub chassis.

To improve the steering, I'm going to:
-Ensure the steering is built well/shimmed properly
-Try a kimbrough servo saver, I found the high torque tamiya to have lots of slop in it
- Use a high quality radio and servo
- if this doesn't work, try aluminium steering arms/bridge

I wanted the titanium screws because I prefer hex hardware and can save weight while I'm at it.

I'm not to worried about weight as my TA06 weighs only 1370g rtr (Stock TA06 pro with Tamiya HSV-010 body, Tamiya silvercan, Teu105bk esc, savox1251mg servo, zippy 4000mah 30c hardcase and flysky receiver)

Gearing on the tb04 for 21.5t/17.5t will be hard though without modification.

Are 64pitch gears worth considering to reduce noise or do they strip to easily?
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Old 02-24-2014, 04:14 AM   #4
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Default Consider a used 417?

For the money a TA06 + the upgrades you should consider buying a used 417. There are plenty for sale here by some good drivers. You have about $200+ dollars in upgrades and when you take into account the cost of the car you'll be ahead getting a used 417 and getting a new bottom deck and belts for it.
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Old 02-24-2014, 04:38 AM   #5
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I have a TB-03 (not the R model) that I ran yesterday in my club's VTA class which uses a 21.5 brushless motor, the HPI vintage tires and rims and a vintage body. My gearing was 75 spur / 52 pinion in 64 pitch for a FDR of 3.52.

I have added TRF shocks, 3Racing graphite front and rear shock towers, removed the IFS front suspension and went with the more traditional front shock mount, 2 degrees negative camber on all 4 tires, slight toe-out in front, stock rear toe. I use a Tamiya HD servo saver.

I have the stock dog bones in the car now but I have a set of Tamiya double cardan CVD's coming along with the sway bar set. These will be the next upgrades.
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Old 02-24-2014, 10:58 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveM View Post
I have a TB-03 (not the R model) that I ran yesterday in my club's VTA class which uses a 21.5 brushless motor, the HPI vintage tires and rims and a vintage body. My gearing was 75 spur / 52 pinion in 64 pitch for a FDR of 3.52.

I have added TRF shocks, 3Racing graphite front and rear shock towers, removed the IFS front suspension and went with the more traditional front shock mount, 2 degrees negative camber on all 4 tires, slight toe-out in front, stock rear toe. I use a Tamiya HD servo saver.

I have the stock dog bones in the car now but I have a set of Tamiya double cardan CVD's coming along with the sway bar set. These will be the next upgrades.
I used to own a TB03 2 years back, it was an awesome car. I liked its acceleration and was easy to install electronics (unlike the ta06). You do need to use stick pack lipos or dremel the battery tray for brick type lipos. I found using aluminium diff halves essential as the stock plastic ones break easily.
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Old 02-25-2014, 08:06 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TB03Racer09 View Post
I'm planning on building a race car that can be competitive at a club level.

What other upgrades should I consider?
PRACTICE !!!

throwing money at it wont make you a better driver.
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:56 AM   #8
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For tb03, the must haves are (IMO):

1. Universals (DCJs are really nice, and help the car go quicker if the setup is right)
2. Carbon steering rack
3. Spring kit
4. Aluminum motor adaptor
5. Bearings for steering (replaces bushings)
6. A better than kit servo saver
7. Sway bars
8. Aluminum ball diff halfs (rear)
9. Spool (front)

There's some other stuff you can buy that matters when you get really dialed in, but that's my must have list.
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Old 02-26-2014, 01:04 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moparSRT View Post
PRACTICE !!!

throwing money at it wont make you a better driver.
of course, but its nice to have a chassis that won't let you down.
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Old 02-26-2014, 01:53 AM   #10
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wouldn't go the TA06 part (tried and failed myself). Top mid-range Tamiya options for me would be:

1. TA05v2Pro/R
2. TB03Pro/R


I would have thrown in the TB04 in the mix but gearing is very limited and might be a problem gearing for 21.5 or 17.5.

On hop-ups...
- Either car usually comes with plastic-tree suspension blocks... so upgrade to the aluminum ones (more consistent and reliable)
- Since they're PRO or R kits, they already come with TRF shocks... so just buy an extra full set of springs in case you want/need to run the same color front and rear
- Stabilizer bars
- Alum Wheel Hexes (5mm)
- Ball bearings for the steering (kit usually has bushings although the drive train is already runs on BB's). I've done fine with the stock plastic-tree steering parts and never really felt a difference with the aluminum pieces, plus the plastic ones are usually lighter
- front DCJ is a nice to have but doesn't need to be a priority
- Titanium/Aluminum screws (save a few grams of weight... my usual rule is that I use Ti screws when the screw mounts on aluminum parts, Alu screws if its plastic (pre-score the screwholes for alu screws).
- if and when budget allows, or if you're more confident with your driving, you can upgrade to the carbon reinforced plastic parts which are stiffer. but for asphalt, i would recommend retaining the stock plastic arms for more traction.

not sure why a lot of people have problems with the kit servo savers but I've used them without a problem for years... i do put a couple of drops of thick CA on the ends of the steel spring clip to remove slope and movement. but since the CA is on steel, it just breaks off if and when you crash hard enough thus still retaining its "saver" function.

on spur gears and pinions...
a lot of folks recommend against 64pitch or 04 module gear as they tend to "strip easily". but from experience, if the gears are meshed properly and you're able to stay away from the boards and run clean, they do last for quite a good amount of time. However, i think a lot of racers tend to look at them as "set and forget" items when they are actually consumables (spurs and pinions do get worn down and need replacement every so often, regardless of pitch). one tip from the pro's though is not to mix and match between brands of spurs and pinions.

HTHs
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Old 02-26-2014, 02:29 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by @Art_Mighty View Post
For the money a TA06 + the upgrades you should consider buying a used 417.
YES
or a used 416, used xray or TC6 .
Look at the total cost of the upgrades, then ask , is that a wise investment. You will never get that money back when you sell it.

Maybe cheaper to by the Pro/R version of those tamiya tub chassis cars? At least they often have the expensive TRF shocks in the kit.
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Old 02-26-2014, 06:21 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moparSRT View Post
PRACTICE !!!

throwing money at it wont make you a better driver.

...what he said!

VRC Pro is a big help

+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


http://www.vrcworld.com/
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Old 02-26-2014, 06:52 AM   #13
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I would suggest the TA06PRO with upgrade set.
The best option parts you need are alu suspension mounts, and some extra advice on the suspension is try to mount the TRF418 suspension arms, steering blocks, rear hubs and stabilizers.
This will give the car a lot more corner speed and rear traction.

My TA06PRO runs super smooth and is very fast, most people underastemate a plastic chassis from tamiya
Most people look down on my TA06PRO but i mostly outrun the guys with a carbon chassis cars with 1 or 2 laps behind me.
This with even a less powerfull motor.
My TA06PRO with a silvercan setup weights only 1250gr, race ready.

Everytime i see guys with a tamiya plastic chassis i see them struggeling with settings, i'll give them some advice and some of those guys do listen and go up to a half second faster on the track and the others who don't listen sell their cars on cause they think it's a bad car.

Don't blame the car but look for some good advice from people who run them with succes.
Cause it all comes down to a good setup for the car, practice and don't be affraid to try some setup changes. (but Always start from the same starting setup)
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Old 02-26-2014, 07:06 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by addicted2blue View Post
I would suggest the TA06PRO with upgrade set.
The best option parts you need are alu suspension mounts, and some extra advice on the suspension is try to mount the TRF418 suspension arms, steering blocks, rear hubs and stabilizers.
This will give the car a lot more corner speed and rear traction.

My TA06PRO runs super smooth and is very fast, most people underastemate a plastic chassis from tamiya
Most people look down on my TA06PRO but i mostly outrun the guys with a carbon chassis cars with 1 or 2 laps behind me.
This with even a less powerfull motor.
My TA06PRO with a silvercan setup weights only 1250gr, race ready.

Everytime i see guys with a tamiya plastic chassis i see them struggeling with settings, i'll give them some advice and some of those guys do listen and go up to a half second faster on the track and the others who don't listen sell their cars on cause they think it's a bad car.

Don't blame the car but look for some good advice from people who run them with succes.
Cause it all comes down to a good setup for the car, practice and don't be affraid to try some setup changes. (but Always start from the same starting setup)
Half a year ago i would have agreed with you having run my ta06 for 2 seasons. Until i realized that having to spend $$$ to bring the weight down to run silver can or stock just didn't make sense (of course this was AFTER i had already spent the $$$ hahaha!). Especially if there were other more economical options available on the get go...

Hopefully the TA06R's included upgrades gets the car to a more acceptable weight without having to spend as much as you would have with the Pro version.
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Old 02-26-2014, 10:01 AM   #15
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Half a year ago i would have agreed with you having run my ta06 for 2 seasons. Until i realized that having to spend $$$ to bring the weight down to run silver can or stock just didn't make sense (of course this was AFTER i had already spent the $$$ hahaha!). Especially if there were other more economical options available on the get go...

Hopefully the TA06R's included upgrades gets the car to a more acceptable weight without having to spend as much as you would have with the Pro version.
You just don't need to spend a lot of money on option parts that won't get you faster.
The carbon reinforced parts are not a big spending thing, but they do lower the weight and give the car less flex.
Most people think that a lighter car is faster, but this is not Always the case.
More weight gives also more traction, what can be a benefit.
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