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Old 10-18-2005, 12:53 PM   #271
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ROAR is AWESOME!
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Old 10-18-2005, 12:55 PM   #272
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now, to put non-believers to rest... my honest feelings are that the two-stage tires are better. they take a much different setup, i will give you that, but the tires are faster.

you may not notice as big of an advantage at a club race where the bite is not so good, but at local two day races, and national level race you will see a difference in the lap times.
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Old 10-18-2005, 01:23 PM   #273
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I think that is has come time for a new organization to establish a set of common sense rule that can be follow cuontry wide. (Mike Boylan and Scotty Ernst are you hearing me?). There is a reason that the Snowbirds and Scotty's Las Vegas race are so popular.

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Old 10-18-2005, 01:27 PM   #274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Rimer
1) Vegas was the first race to allow 3800's this year. They were illegal for the Reedy Race. I don't recall standing around whining about their legality at the ROAR nats. However, if they had run them last year and disallowed them this year....yeah, I would be bitchin a little. Same thing.
2) No one "slipped" anything by anyone. If you didn't know about these tires last year, you simply weren't paying attention. Nobody CARED because they didn't have a year of kicking ass behind them.
3) If our team showed up and found out at the race that the tires were illegal we wouldn't whine. We would simply overnite regular tires and proceed to stomp everyone like we have the past few years anyway.

We ran 37's and 38's at Scotty's Summer Sizzler Jack. Of course that's just Scotty being proactive. Did ya ask Mr. Bill if the wraps were legal last year, no everybody just ran 'em? I know that bodies have to be approved, as do motors. Tires have always been a sort of "grey" area. (pun very much intended). And I know your entire team would be just as fast on the regular tires as they are on the wraps, You have a bunch of the greatest drivers in the business. I'm not attacking you or your company in any way. And I may have worded the whole "slipped" thing incorrectly, if you were offended I apologize. I'm just trying to point out that this wasn't done as a result of the other tire manufacturer's bitching, but as Mr. Bill's interpretation of the rules. It is an unfortunate situation that I wish we could have averted. But I don't think Baker or Blackstock are gonna be at a disadvantage due to running the regular tires. Next year I'm sure they'll be legal and all will be well, but this year we gotta work with what we have.

The whole better for the sponsors argument is about people who actually BUY their tires. The customers would have to buy what is available. Of course you could always just order 'em up and sell 'em there too.
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Old 10-18-2005, 01:44 PM   #275
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Ian-since your feeling so loquacious today-I have a very important question for you. Check PM!!!
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Old 10-18-2005, 01:49 PM   #276
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Man, this has become a ROAR bashing thread, and the funny thing is, the race we are discussing is not a ROAR event. Evidently Mr Bill uses the ROAR rulebook as a guideline. LIKE MOST ALL RACING in the US, ROAR or NOT.

The wording for that specific rule, is interepeted by Mr Bill a differnt way then it was intended. That is his perogative because it is not a ROAR event. Good or bad, thats his call. ( IMHO I think the tires should be able to be run, as the spirit of the rule is intended for 2 dissimilar materials)


And there are MANY reasons why Scotty and Mikes events are the best shows....

1. They both love the hobby, and have been doing it for years, they both have an incredible support structure behind them.
2. They listen to the racers and do what they say ther are going to.
3. The both have events in places where people want to go.
4. They use standard set of rules as a basis for thier events.

on and on..... it just comes down to the simple reality, that currently they are the best promoters in R/C
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Old 10-18-2005, 02:24 PM   #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rayhuang
Ian-since your feeling so loquacious today

Wow, Can that be cleared up with an anti-biotic?
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Old 10-18-2005, 02:25 PM   #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimPotter
And there are MANY reasons why Scotty and Mikes events are the best shows....

1. They both love the hobby, and have been doing it for years, they both have an incredible support structure behind them.
2. They listen to the racers and do what they say ther are going to.
3. The both have events in places where people want to go.
4. They use standard set of rules as a basis for thier events.

on and on..... it just comes down to the simple reality, that currently they are the best promoters in R/C
And promotion is sorely lacking in this industry...

Any edgoomacated businessman can tell you that marketing will get you 80% of the way to being successful. Having integrity by following through on what you promote will keep you there.
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Old 10-18-2005, 02:27 PM   #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teamgp
And promotion is sorely lacking in this industry...

Any edgoomacated businessman can tell you that marketing will get you 80% of the way to being successful. Having integrity by following through on what you promote will keep you there.
Damn Skippy.......
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Old 10-18-2005, 02:28 PM   #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CypressMidWest
Wow, Can that be cleared up with an anti-biotic?
Anti-ROAR maybe?

Couldn't resist the low blow. BTW, I'm all for rules bodies and am a member of ROAR through our local track.
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Old 10-18-2005, 04:12 PM   #281
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I think it is best to move on regarding this discussion.
1) I certainly am not bashing ROAR- I just want to clarify the difference between the interpretation of rules versus intent. With that said, it is Mr. Bill's race so what he says goes.
2) I don't want this isolated debate to ruin an otherwise great and classic race. I'm sure it will soon be forgotten. It really is not a huge deal.
3) We have been making regular tires for over 15 years, so I'm sure we can scrape up a few for this race.
4) We will have both types of tires for sale at the race in the Trinity booth.
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Old 10-18-2005, 09:56 PM   #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Rimer
If the term "laminate" refers to the bonding of two dissimilar materials then all dual compound fronts must be considered illegal. This is how it was interpreted by EFRA. You now may not run dual compound fronts in competition as a result of their ruling. Imagine going to a race and not being able to run double pink/orange, plaid, etc. This is the rule in Europe. Contrary to what many think, you don't have to have these tires to win. Tosolini won Snowbirds with regular tires and Calandra won Vegas with regulars too.
Does anyone ever run a dual compound tire (Purple/Org, DP/Org) both front and rear?
I saw Hara's set-up sheet from Vegas, and it said Jaco DP/Org for both front and rear, I was wondering if it was a typo... (though I am very sure he can go fast with a car that 99.99% of us cannot keep straight).
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Old 10-18-2005, 09:59 PM   #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CypressMidWest
... I've been to one or two editions of the Champs though, and that's the only rules issue I remember throughout a weekend. Where as at ROAR race, they may just change the way the re-sort, the type of qualpoints used, the basis of tie-breakers etc. I guess the '05 asphalt nats were excellent, but more often than not ROAR races are inconsistently executed.
What a cheap way out of the hole you dug yourself trying to defend a bad decision by Mr.Bill. I guess you figured Roar was an easy target given the recent abysmal track record, but the only thing they did wrong this time was have a rule for Mr.Bill to misquote.

Perhaps Mr.Bill should develop his own rule base so that there isn't any chance for misinterpretation?
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Old 10-18-2005, 10:46 PM   #284
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Some guys at my track are running double pink purple in the rear and double pink/ orange front. I have some but have yet to use them. They are said to make the tires last longer.
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Old 10-18-2005, 11:32 PM   #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CypressMidWest
The Champs has a long standing rule in place that states "NO CAPPED TIRES or coatings of any type" It doesn't have a special clause for foam capped foams, just NO CAPS. If we wanna use that long standing rule then there was never any question that they aren't legal.

You coulda all just shown up and been told on the spot
First off, then do it. Re-enstate the rule about no caps. Quoating ROAR rules is insane as Mr. Bill has made it clear in the past that this race has nothing todo with ROAR. Look at how often new batteris and bodies are approved for Cleveland even if they have only been out for a couple of weeks. Why is Mr. Bill no all of a sudden going on ROAR rules?

Secondly, I remember when TC practiced at 3mmm of ride height and then for qualifing it changed to 5.5mm. So the rules always do change and that year no one knew till they showed up at tech.
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