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Old 02-13-2014, 12:33 PM   #31
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Perhaps this would be a good place to consider the reason(s) why most every major sedan race these days is run on spec tires and also with a limit on how many sets can be used during the event. Whether it is by design or not, the use of spec sedan tires at major races has leveled the sedan playing field somewhat and has also helped to contain costs. What's not to like? So why not explore trying to accomplish a similar type of cost control benefit for 1/12th scale racers? For every type of race car both large and small, the tire bill is always one of the largest components of the overall racing budget. That's just a racing "fact of life". IMO, if a 1/12th scale tire rule will help to contain the tire cost without spoiling the performance of the cars or the competition, it would be worth consideration. Just imagine how much it would cost to race a sedan if there were no limits on tire usage? Without a spec tire rule, there would certainly be one-run sedan tires available and in use, and it would cost a small fortune to keep a top shelf sedan outfitted with the must-have tires at each race meeting. Whether or not anybody wants to admit it, one run tires are not very far from what 1/12th scale racing has evolved into. Everybody has figured out that the cars just work better and go faster with very tiny sidewalls. So it has become customary (and necessary) to cut new tires down to very small sizes in order to be competitive. Good rules are ones that foster competition without ruining performance, while also helping to contain costs. There are times when smart rules are needed in order to help protect the racers from their own competitive nature. A spec 1/12th scale tire just might help. Or, as an alternative, perhaps it could also work if guys were allowed to run any 1/12th scale tire they choose but with a strict limit on how many sets they could use during the event. I offer that it is the one-run tire phenomenon that needs to be somehow contained and controlled. How that could be accomplished is a topic for healthy discussion.
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Old 02-13-2014, 02:11 PM   #32
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Please don't try to change a class that really doesn't have any issues. If we went "Spec" in 1/12 those would also turn into one run tires. At large TC races they save 1 new set for the main because it is faster and better.
Again GT Spec tires for 1/12 are not cheaper, as a manufacture I have set pricing for spec tires and they are not cheaper than typical foam.
To me 1/12 is not a beginner class, it is one of the more advanced classes, let's not screw it up.
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Old 02-13-2014, 03:01 PM   #33
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Are you ACTUALLY saying that 12th scale should not be a class beginners or less experienced hobbysists get in to ??
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Old 02-13-2014, 03:08 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Evoracer View Post
Are you ACTUALLY saying that 12th scale should not be a class beginners or less experienced hobbysists get in to ??
Don't see much if any true beginners at the big races

Like Mr Dunn has said
Spec 12 tires aren't a hit, few if any clubs have even gone down that road yet

And there's nothing stopping a few of the rubber/spec 12 guys here from adopting this into their local races

One of the most popular classes at big carpet races is 12th stock

You want to "fix" that ?
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Old 02-13-2014, 04:32 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Evoracer View Post
Are you ACTUALLY saying that 12th scale should not be a class beginners or less experienced hobbysists get in to ??
I don't get that but let's be honest, even 1/12th stock non blinky is pretty quick for a new person and that is after taking away boost. Putting a tire on a lathe and accurately measuring it to the nearest millimeter shouldn't be an impediment to anyone who wants to race considering all the battery and motor BS that people had to put up with five or so years back in addition to keeping their tires straight. There is nothing wrong with not wanting every class dumbed down to the lowest common denominator, especially when turnouts are healthy as it stands.
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Old 02-13-2014, 04:35 PM   #36
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What about rubber tires for 1/12??
If someone could come up with a rubber tire that handles well I'd be all over that.

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Originally Posted by Evoracer View Post
Can I ask WHY this is such a no no to talk about ? It seems a similar situation to what F1 went through. They were always foam and now it seems rubber is almost the standard. The worst part of foams has already been mentioned. They just don't last very long. I run on asphalt. It sure would be nice to have a set of tires that lasted more than a weekend.
So what's the REAL answer ?
The F1 situation is a bit different. The main draw to F1 is the scale looks where the main draw to 1/12th is the speed and handling. Rubber tires in F1 help to accentuate the scale looks and avoids all kinds of rules about tire size and what not for foam. But while rubber tires look good in F1 they do not handle well. Yes they have gotten better but they are still a long way off from handling well. The reason it is such a no no to talk about is the topic has been beat to death so many times. Until something changes with the technology most people feel there really isn't a reason to bring it back up. But on the other hand if no one brings it up...manufacturers aren't likely to try something new on that front.

Sweep was talking about a 1/12th rubber tire but given the issues they had with their F1 tire my guess is they probably gave up on the idea.
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Old 02-13-2014, 05:34 PM   #37
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I'm just thinking outside the box here. So, don't bust my balls on this idea.

To keep away from the whole idea of using spec tires. Why not continue with running what ever tire you choose, but set a minimum trued tire diameter i.e 42.5 front and 43.5 rear for qualifying. This would eliminate "one run" tire issues and would extend the longevity of the tire for another heat(s)/main(s).

Heres the idea in a little more detail.

All racers are allowed to bring 3 full sets of an agreed upon tire diameter. Example 42.5 front and 43.5 rear. Now, from my understanding, the first couple heats the carpet is still relatively "green". So running slightly larger diameter tires shouldn't cause serious traction rolling issues.

The racer must use all 3 sets of their minimum trued tires in their respective heats. One set can be used for practice, and that "practice set" can only be reused again in their 2nd qualifying heat.

Now, once the racer has used a set in their qualifying heat or practice, the tires will be marked. This mark indicates that the tires can be trued down to a smaller diameter of their choosing or on an agreed diameter.

The idea here is to control the starting diameter which allows racers to get in a few more runs off of a set of new tires. This should help in reducing costs and still keep the class competitive for the mains.
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Old 02-13-2014, 06:50 PM   #38
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I'm just thinking outside the box here. So, don't bust my balls on this idea.

To keep away from the whole idea of using spec tires. Why not continue with running what ever tire you choose, but set a minimum trued tire diameter i.e 42.5 front and 43.5 rear for qualifying. This would eliminate "one run" tire issues and would extend the longevity of the tire for another heat(s)/main(s).

Heres the idea in a little more detail.

All racers are allowed to bring 3 full sets of an agreed upon tire diameter. Example 42.5 front and 43.5 rear. Now, from my understanding, the first couple heats the carpet is still relatively "green". So running slightly larger diameter tires shouldn't cause serious traction rolling issues.

The racer must use all 3 sets of their minimum trued tires in their respective heats. One set can be used for practice, and that "practice set" can only be reused again in their 2nd qualifying heat.

Now, once the racer has used a set in their qualifying heat or practice, the tires will be marked. This mark indicates that the tires can be trued down to a smaller diameter of their choosing or on an agreed diameter.

The idea here is to control the starting diameter which allows racers to get in a few more runs off of a set of new tires. This should help in reducing costs and still keep the class competitive for the mains.
uh.....no.
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Old 02-13-2014, 06:58 PM   #39
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I'm also of the opinion that there's nothing wrong with a club deciding to run the WGT tire at the local level if they want to. But I tend to agree about 1/12 being a different animal than 1/10.

I run 1/10th scale oval in a class that mandates WGT's. The car is heavier and all the weight is placed to the left, so we have much more leeway with our adjustments that allow us to adapt to this tire easier.

But with 1/12 it's different, the car is so light and sensitive to any sort of adjusment, the WGT can do well on some track surfaces and totally suck on others. So before it becomes shoved down everyone's throat on the national level, I think it should be tested at the local level first. If your track likes them, fine. If it then cathes on like wildfire from club to club, beautiful!
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Old 02-13-2014, 08:26 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by EDWARD2003 View Post
I'm just thinking outside the box here. So, don't bust my balls on this idea.

To keep away from the whole idea of using spec tires. Why not continue with running what ever tire you choose, but set a minimum trued tire diameter i.e 42.5 front and 43.5 rear for qualifying. This would eliminate "one run" tire issues and would extend the longevity of the tire for another heat(s)/main(s).

Heres the idea in a little more detail.

All racers are allowed to bring 3 full sets of an agreed upon tire diameter. Example 42.5 front and 43.5 rear. Now, from my understanding, the first couple heats the carpet is still relatively "green". So running slightly larger diameter tires shouldn't cause serious traction rolling issues.

The racer must use all 3 sets of their minimum trued tires in their respective heats. One set can be used for practice, and that "practice set" can only be reused again in their 2nd qualifying heat.

Now, once the racer has used a set in their qualifying heat or practice, the tires will be marked. This mark indicates that the tires can be trued down to a smaller diameter of their choosing or on an agreed diameter.

The idea here is to control the starting diameter which allows racers to get in a few more runs off of a set of new tires. This should help in reducing costs and still keep the class competitive for the mains.
Yuck.
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Old 02-13-2014, 09:26 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDWARD2003 View Post
I'm just thinking outside the box here. So, don't bust my balls on this idea.

To keep away from the whole idea of using spec tires. Why not continue with running what ever tire you choose, but set a minimum trued tire diameter i.e 42.5 front and 43.5 rear for qualifying. This would eliminate "one run" tire issues and would extend the longevity of the tire for another heat(s)/main(s).

Heres the idea in a little more detail.

All racers are allowed to bring 3 full sets of an agreed upon tire diameter. Example 42.5 front and 43.5 rear. Now, from my understanding, the first couple heats the carpet is still relatively "green". So running slightly larger diameter tires shouldn't cause serious traction rolling issues.

The racer must use all 3 sets of their minimum trued tires in their respective heats. One set can be used for practice, and that "practice set" can only be reused again in their 2nd qualifying heat.

Now, once the racer has used a set in their qualifying heat or practice, the tires will be marked. This mark indicates that the tires can be trued down to a smaller diameter of their choosing or on an agreed diameter.

The idea here is to control the starting diameter which allows racers to get in a few more runs off of a set of new tires. This should help in reducing costs and still keep the class competitive for the mains.
umm.... this is a bad idea.

You know who this would benefit the most? The fastest of the fast who are used to running on the surface and have the benefit of vast experience.
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Old 02-13-2014, 09:41 PM   #42
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since I have never been to a major carpet event I can't speak with absolute authority, but.
It seems that while 1 primary and 1 secondary compound for front and rear is approaching 2x's the total outlay UP FRONT, there is no reason to discard the unused compounds so can't they be used later elsewhere?
so there might be an initial outlay but no significant increase over time?

and since different drivers find different solutions at a given event, wouldn't mandating one compound penalize some racers more than others?

as for 'one run tires', this is a fact of racing. I know 1/8 gas racers that cut tires for one run in qualifiers at a club race. does the rest of the field demand a new rule? (no. but some just shake our heads. different strokes?)
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Old 02-13-2014, 09:49 PM   #43
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i think you guys are missing a huge difference between say a touring car spec tire, and a 1/12 scale spec tire
1. touring cars run a RUBBER tire
2. 1/12 scales run FOAM tires

the point im making is that for 1/12 to get a spec tire you would need a rubber tire that didnt wear like crazy but aside from gt and vta there is sedan and in sedan you can run pretty much any tires that conforms to the roar rules its the same for 1/12 scale any tire that conforms to their class's roar rules however at larger events say snowbirds they run jaco blues (a spec tire) for sedan but once again its a rubber tire
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Old 02-13-2014, 09:55 PM   #44
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Why not just get every combo out there???
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12th scale spec tire-img_3117.jpg  
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Old 02-13-2014, 10:01 PM   #45
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Why not just get every combo out there???
not unlike pinions, which do require some upfront investment. but again, you don't need to dispose of the unused ones.
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