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Old 01-24-2014, 11:38 AM   #1
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Default Is Stock Sedan Under Siege? (Shaft vs Belt)

At the track last night, many of us where joking about whether or not we needed to split the 17.5 class into shaft drive vs belt drive. But, if we're being serious, we have witnessed the Awesomatix give people a larger advantage in stock racing than anything else we've ever seen, with the possible exception of boosted ESCs, and even that is questionable. I also don't believe that its advantage is the shaft drive, that's just a convenient topic when talking about what makes it different.

Obviously we don't need to change the classes, and I'm not trying to sound like a commercial for the Awesomatix. But to anybody that's paying attention and being honest, the car has absolutely shifted the balance of stock racing and is changing the game. Check out Art's article on Cambergain for his thoughts as well.

Will other manufacturers respond? Will someone purpose build a car for stock racing to try and compete? It's a very interesting time for stock racing, and for once nobody can't point and say "I told you so" like we saw with LiPo and brushless and speed control timing. This is genuine, old-fashioned engineering, thinking outside the box, not copying the status quo touring car design and shaking up racing in a way we haven't seen since the Ladgraff cars smashed dirt oval in the mid 80's.
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Old 01-24-2014, 11:50 AM   #2
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Tamiya Tb03 owners, getting that "unfair advantage" since 2008.

http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...a-tb-03-a.html
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Old 01-24-2014, 11:57 AM   #3
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Is Art running an A700 now too
How else could he be so fast ?
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:03 PM   #4
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I think you are correct, the Awesomatix does give an unfair advantage in stock but not just becuase it is shaft drive (although that helps) The whole design of the car keeps the CoG extremely low that helps the car to generate and maintain high corner speeds which is essential in any racing but moreso in stock. The down side of a very low Cog is that there is less weight transfer, that can be be a slight disadvantage in low grip situation particularly with hot motors. So IMO the Awesomatix has an avantage but the faster the motor the less that advantage becomes.

It is a top class competition racing car but I'm still not convinced it a great club racing car, its effectively twice the price of other cars and not as durable, there are a couple of tracks where I race that your sanity would need to be questioned if you put an Awsomematix on the start line.

I doesn't really matter if the Awesomematix was no better or even slightly worse that other cars, people (like me) would buy purely for the engineering exellence.

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Old 01-24-2014, 12:25 PM   #5
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UGH .... Im in no way an expert and have been out of TC racing for some time now but I remember this when the TC3 came out. So now more classes and basically penalize talent and engineering?

Why cant people just practice more and try harder to beat the fast guys instead of wanting more classes to hopefully win easier!?!

I think if anything you'll see the shaft come back because Manuf's arent gonna want to lose their market share in the racing scene wether its stock or mod.
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:38 PM   #6
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The two classes thing was a joke. That's not a path we need to travel.
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:39 PM   #7
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Before:
"I'd sure like to see some true innovation is RC, everything is pretty much the same!!"

After:
"Wait you innovated? Go play somewhere else in your own class!!"
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Old 01-24-2014, 12:56 PM   #8
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The two classes thing was a joke. That's not a path we need to travel.
Agreed - did see one run a couple weeks ago and will say Ive been reading and my pockets been burning.
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Old 01-24-2014, 01:14 PM   #9
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I've seen them run and they are great cars. They are not dominating at the tracks I've been to, I've seen them running in both 10.5 boosted and 17.5 blinky.

I still believe its all about the driver in this hobby, and if the chassis fit's their style.

However, to get to the main point, I also agree that most manufacturers do not consider stock classes. I was talking about this to guys at our club and I can only think the fact is that they aim to win championships and the worlds, so the cars are build for Mod racing.

Probably the only company that makes stock chassis is Tamiya with their TA and TB cars as they do focus on their home market, where stock racing is very popular.

I remember the TA05 being a great stock racer, and it took the A at our club at a regular basis.
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Old 01-24-2014, 01:23 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBullFiXX View Post
Is Art running an A700 now too
How else could he be so fast ?
Ouch that hurts...are you saying that I suck?

I have been putting in time at the track you know!
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Old 01-24-2014, 01:27 PM   #11
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I've been watching, reading, thinking about the Awesomatics and in general I love the thing. It's fast, looks sexy, has updates that fix what's wrong with it, get love from racers who have it and overall seems to make you faster. Like most racers I do want to go faster and sometimes the idea of just getting on of these to try out seems like the only path I need to go down. I generally run mod in the summer but all winter there is only 17.5 or slower in my area so this car is exiting to think about getting.

But, the cost is what is really setting it apart for most and is something that I just cant get over. I can afford one, a few in reality, but I just can't justify getting one to go club racing like 95% of the racers do. I'm not afraid to spend some money on this hobby but I need to be able to justify that cost in relationship to the level that I'm racing at and cost of competitive chassis for me. That is where this goes wrong for me. This isn't to say that the car isn't worth every penny you pay for it when you compare how fast "you" are with it compared to everything else, it most likely is. I just can't put the coin out to go that fast and feel right about doing so.

Maybe in a year or two once others have copied some idea or blatantly stole this cars design I'll be able to justify it. Perhaps by then the Awsomatics will have costs under control and be more reasonably priced and I can just buy the original?

Until then, I'll be club racing with less expensive cars.*





*I reserve the right to change my mind on this! If I suddenly find myself not crashing every few laps like I do now and going faster I may find that I can justify dumping real money on toy cars.
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Old 01-24-2014, 01:32 PM   #12
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I will have to concur with Rob... "I'm not even close to an expert" in TC racing. But I will make the statement all these new TC kits are being designed to achieve the maximum amount of corner speed possible, regardless of belt or shaft. For one individuals car being faster than the other "especially" in stock racing, it comes down to that individual building a better chassis and having a better set-up and most importantly driving that car "per set-up" faster than the other.....

I know this because I have driven other racers TC's (on the same track/same day) which is the same as mine (T4 14) and none drove like mine and the same individuals drove my chassis and the result was the same both ways. These other cars I drove are very competitive and are looked at as competition every club race as "anyone of these racers could TQ/WIN. There is one individual who does have the Awesomatix and is just as competitive if not more depending on the day. Truth be told the car is amazing and all four wheels do spin freely 3X longer without the pinion gear attached than a belt driven car. But once again I have my T4 extremely free and is just as fast in my opinion. This comes down to chassis build, set-up and more importantly the driving, the difference isn't as much as you would think, as you would see more shaft driven cars other than just the Awesomatix kit....
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Old 01-24-2014, 01:34 PM   #13
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For what it's worth, the cost does include ECS for the front and all the sway bars. And you don't need a front gear diff to make it turn.

I was immediately .25 faster with the car than I had been with a T4'14 I'd been working on for a few months. Everybody I've seen get the car goes faster immediately. There are quirks, like any car, but for me and those around me, it's completely changed the game.
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Old 01-24-2014, 01:35 PM   #14
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People are always so quick to dump a bunch of money in batteries, Motors, Bodies and servos to find the edge. High end cars costs money. Xray set the bar pretty high on costs of cars. When they first came out...everyone was like "I will never pay that for a stoopid toy car" but now they are arguably the best selling brand in on-road. When everyone was getting beat by the T1 a lot of people made the move. I was one of the first people to own a T1 and I was stunned at the quality of the build and the speed of the car. At the time that car was way over my head and I could not quite figure it out, but it was fast no doubt.

The bottom line is that people will pay whatever it costs to be faster then their competitors. Even if it is only in perception.
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Old 01-24-2014, 01:36 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artwork View Post
Ouch that hurts...are you saying that I suck?

I have been putting in time at the track you know!
D didn't say that, but yeah, that's what he said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qatmix View Post

I remember the TA05 being a great stock racer, and it took the A at our club at a regular basis.
Still is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbob View Post
UGH .... Im in no way an expert and have been out of TC racing for some time now but I remember this when the TC3 came out. So now more classes and basically penalize talent and engineering?
Did you see my post? The only reason it's not popular is they keep lowering the minimum weight for the sedan class and it's a little tubby - like 40 grams over minimum with a lightweight Speed six on it.
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