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Old 02-11-2014, 09:58 AM   #121
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I was having traction rolling issues a day yesterday. I switched to stiffer swaybars on both ends and it made my issue worse. I increased droop (less downtravel) and it made it worse again. I was rolling even with barely any traction compound. I did notice I had a bit of a tweak issue going on so I am going to do a ground up rebuild on a tweak board and see if that helps some. But I know it wont get rid of the roll issue. Glad I wrote down a previous set-up that worked, but was a little loose. Go back to what I know works
So what was different on the other setup that stopped it traction rolling?
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Old 02-11-2014, 10:21 AM   #122
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It should be: no swaybars + less droop + softer springs + wider track width + gluing the tire sidewalls....etc....
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:27 AM   #123
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It should be: no swaybars + less droop + softer springs + wider track width + gluing the tire sidewalls....etc....
I'm with you on all of that,excep:
But don't swaybars (or antirollbars) avoid traction rolling?

Regards,
David
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:31 AM   #124
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How do u guys get rid of snap oversteer? It happens at the exit of corner when throttle is applied. The car understeer entering corners and after the snap oversteer.
I found an interesting thread in the off-road section that may help answer your question.

Give post #1 a read and try some of the items talked about in Rear Roll Center section.

http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...ll-center.html
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Old 02-11-2014, 02:01 PM   #125
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Hey Martin, I have a question about what sweep does? What does it do haha... and how come its not mentioned in your chassis settings explained portion of your app?

On another note you mention the angle of the camber link, and how the more it leans downward on the inside the more camber gain you have. Which is also roll center, say you want more steering, you want to adjust this by more camber gain, or raising your front roll center on the shock tower... a problem then occurs yes? you cannot raise the roll center on the tower and increase camber gain is that correct?
re: sweep - Adding sweep to the front of your car will give more steering. Yes I don't cover that in my app

re: camber gain. When you raise the front roll center you are lowering the inboard connection point of the upper link, not raising it.



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Originally Posted by Atechbh View Post
What is the best thing to do when car works perfect for first 2 heats and then starts traction
Rolling in 3rd with no Change to chassis. Using full tire sauce as recommended on here. Switched to no tire sauce in main but seemed to lose too much traction
Well changing track conditions require changes in setup. All of the things we have talked about so far that can reduce traction rolling are options to consider when going into the third main. There is not really a "best thing" to do, as it depends on what you have already done to your car and also how much the track is changing.

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Originally Posted by theproffesor View Post
I was having traction rolling issues a day yesterday. I switched to stiffer swaybars on both ends and it made my issue worse. I increased droop (less downtravel) and it made it worse again. I was rolling even with barely any traction compound. I did notice I had a bit of a tweak issue going on so I am going to do a ground up rebuild on a tweak board and see if that helps some. But I know it wont get rid of the roll issue. Glad I wrote down a previous set-up that worked, but was a little loose. Go back to what I know works
Yes. stiffer swaybars will typically make it worse, because they cause a jacking effect. If you increased droop then you have more up travel which would make things worse. Tweak will also make the car flip, but typically only when turning one direction.

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Originally Posted by snuvet75 View Post
How do u guys get rid of snap oversteer? It happens at the exit of corner when throttle is applied. The car understeer entering corners and after the snap oversteer.
There are few things to try, but I would start with Lowering the front roll center, by raising the inboard portion of the upper links. Other options to consider, but would make the corner entry push more would be...
- increase rear toe
- raise rear roll center

Often when you have a high front roll center and you are running a spool you can get a huge snap oversteer coming out of the corner and a push into the corner.
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Old 02-11-2014, 02:05 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by bertrandsv87 View Post
It should be: no swaybars + less droop + softer springs + wider track width + gluing the tire sidewalls....etc....
yep...except I tend to always like some swaybars...just not very stiff ones. Better for high speed transitions like chicances.

Quote:
Originally Posted by niemand View Post
I'm with you on all of that,excep:
But don't swaybars (or antirollbars) avoid traction rolling?

Regards,
David
David - swaybars when too stiff can cause the car to flip more easily because they jack the car up and essentially pole vault your car over the outside tire.
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Old 02-11-2014, 03:48 PM   #127
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Aside from the OP, I still have your book in crisp condition, pun intended. Thanks a bunch, will download the app.

SORRY IM LATE,rock on, Martins back!!

i bought my copy back in 2002(i think it was around that year) when it first came out,after 10 yrs away ive reverted back to it,glad to see you on here martin,your advice is most helpfull
i had the inner camberlinks and roll center back to front,i thought adding more shims reduced roll,no wonder i have been struggling ,now i better understand what my car has been doing doh
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Old 02-11-2014, 08:37 PM   #128
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Hello Martin.

I purchased your app a couple days ago, and I was reading up on wheel load transfer.

You mention (correct me if I'm wrong) the larger the difference between front R and L wheel loads will result in poor handling. i.e lack of steering.

How can you minimize this wheel load difference? I don't have the app in front of me at this moment.

Furthermore, I am also using another setup program that illustrates wheel loads going into a corner. I noticed if I go up one spring rate it will help reduce the difference between front R and L wheel loads. Now, if I go any higher with the spring rate it becomes worse, and if I go any soft it does the same.

Why is that?
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Old 02-11-2014, 09:06 PM   #129
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i also just purchased the app but have not read into it too much. we have little orange dots all over the track. my car likes to roll if i even just graze one. drives me nuts. my car is so on the edge and it loves to roll. going to read into it a bunch and see if i can cure the issue.
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Old 02-11-2014, 09:12 PM   #130
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i also just purchased the app but have not read into it too much. we have little orange dots all over the track. my car likes to roll if i even just graze one. drives me nuts. my car is so on the edge and it loves to roll. going to read into it a bunch and see if i can cure the issue.
like plow discs? we use to run those the answer i have found is dont hit one while turning, if you hit it dead on youll be ok
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Old 02-11-2014, 09:39 PM   #131
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no not plow disks. these are like 5" across. plastic maybe 1/2" height. i touch em and im done. anything to upset the car and over it goes. i see other guys just brush them like its nuthin. like half the car width like a breese. mine even slightly touches them whilst cornering and over it goes. i got something wrong and i have not figured it out yet. ill find the issue.
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Old 02-12-2014, 09:53 AM   #132
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no not plow disks. these are like 5" across. plastic maybe 1/2" height. i touch em and im done. anything to upset the car and over it goes. i see other guys just brush them like its nuthin. like half the car width like a breese. mine even slightly touches them whilst cornering and over it goes. i got something wrong and i have not figured it out yet. ill find the issue.
lighter dampening
lighter spring rate

we have a TON of real dots on our carpet track. i go for decreased dampening first...
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Old 02-12-2014, 10:36 AM   #133
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Where do you race ? Cause we have a ton of dots. I race with seattle area racers at the comunity center/ hangar30
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Old 02-12-2014, 10:38 AM   #134
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Hey, at least you have corner dots instead of boards!

One thing that may be promoting the roll-over on tapping the disk is that before or in addition to the tire your chassis may have grazed it... in which case the car is just going over.
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Old 02-12-2014, 10:59 AM   #135
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I see you are signed up for the Cdn Nats, Martin. Very cool! Looking forward to racing with you again. I've had a bit of a break from racing recently too, though not as long as yours. Welcome back!

See you soon sir.
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