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Old 07-19-2005, 01:37 PM   #31
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Brushless motors can be regulated the same that brushed motors are. They will be able to come out with stock and mods. You might even only have to buy one mod and then slow it down with the speedo if its too quick for track conditions.
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Old 07-19-2005, 03:14 PM   #32
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The new novak system isnt even close to the power of an average 7T, I wish it was the case but its a fact, there isnt a BL system out there yet that has the smoothness and power of a low turn mod

Even if there is a BL as powerful as a 7T well then what will you do against the guy that will be running a 5x1?

If manufacturers see more profits in running\using brushed technology they will put pressure on ROAR to make the rules different concerning magnets and poles wich will turn brushed motors into real rockets and make it even harder for BL to become popular....
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Old 07-19-2005, 03:18 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbevofreak
If manufacturers see more profits in running\using brushed technology they will put pressure on ROAR to make the rules different concerning magnets and poles wich will turn brushed motors into real rockets and make it even harder for BL to become popular....
It's happening as we speak. Wait until you see what Team Br00d brings to the table... I predict mighty things from that little company.
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Old 07-19-2005, 03:39 PM   #34
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Seriously? I am dreaming to see that happen! but I thought Team Br00d was working on a Brushless system..?

Any extra info?

Thanks!!
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Old 07-19-2005, 03:52 PM   #35
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I don't know any insider info -- heck I don't even hardly know those guys at all. However, I _DO_ know they were working on some good stuff with Big Jim. I wonder if some of his techniques will be used on a series of motors from Br00d. I know some of the stuff Jim was talking about doing, and this may or may not involve Br00d, so don't quote me as saying so:

Lightwire armatures (wound with aluminum rather than copper windings)
Powertrix devices (I think Br00d already can do these)
Brush hoods with small channels to prevent brush cocking in the hood?
Who knows what else?
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Old 07-19-2005, 04:38 PM   #36
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Yes, I read about all the features you listed, the lightwire armatures is a failure, Powertrix arms are great but VERY difficult\long to make wich makes it hard to produce but I m sure Big Jim gave Eddie at Team Br00d all the knowledge to make a 5 poles Neo Mag brushed motor that would destroy any nitro or BL 1\10th car out there!!

If only this dream could become true....
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Old 07-20-2005, 12:40 PM   #37
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I have chatted to Craig Drescher about his testing of the GTB+Velocity combo. His opinion was that after they had sorted some bugs out, it was slightly faster but with much more runtime than the best mod setup he had. Now that should tell you all you need to know, he is one of the top racers in the world.

Where brushless comes into it's own is this: It performs the same run after run after run after run..........

AND..

If you ran a 5 turn brushed in a 5 minute race you would either dump, or the motor would be so hot by the last minute you would have wished you'd ran a higher wind. Whereas the brushless will be nearly as fast at the start of the race, but much faster by the end.

It may break your heart, but brushed is on it's way out.

The Model Aircraft world were never so attached to old and antiquated brush technology. They moved on years ago.
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Old 07-20-2005, 02:07 PM   #38
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Quote:
Where brushless comes into it's own is this: It performs the same run after run after run after run..........
I don't think this is necessarily true. Any magnet, exposed to an opposing magnetic field, will eventually become degaussed. Further more, alot of the heat that is developed in brushed motors (on the can) is due to the eddy currents developed in the magnets as the armature spins. Magnets generate heat when the have to do work. Therefore, the armature of a brushless motor may get VERY hot during a run. Its just that the heat isn't transfered to can, because its not attached.

While I agree that brushless motors are more effecient, and probably generate less heat (because of increased effeciency) the idea that they never wear out is false in my opinion. However, they will last significantly longer than the Comm on their brushed counterparts. I have very old cans that I just keep putting new arms in. They are still fast. In fact, its a proven fact that motors generate more RPM with weaker magnets, because there is less reverse electromotive force. (The magnetic field of the magnets induce a current opposite the input current as the armature rotates through the magetic field. That current sets up its own magnetic field on the arm, cancelling the field induced by the drive current.)- That is what the PowerTrix devices are (in theory) trying to eliminate.
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Old 07-20-2005, 03:32 PM   #39
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Well yes, of course magnets lose strength over time and use. But they are neodymium which last better than ferrite. I've been using my ss5800 over 1 year and can't say I've notice any drop in performance. It's be up to some extremely high temps in that time too.

Sure you can(excuse the pun ) use a brushed can over and over, but how many people actually do that? I replaced the armature around 3 times before moving to a new can. The arm is the most expensive part of a brushed motor to replace anyway.

And don't forget this-The performance of a brushless motor may drop slightly over long periods of usage. But it will still perform fine and could be sold on to a beginner etc.
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Old 07-20-2005, 06:53 PM   #40
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I don't think brushed motors have been given a fair shot to contend with brushless. ROAR should try to do some development with the manufactuers behind the scenes to see what they can come up with (kinda like what they do at the NASCAR R&D facility in North Carolina) with both brushed, brushless and develop sets of rules which will allow brushed and brushless to compete with each other giving the user a choice without rendering them in-competative

Maybe what I said isn't realistic or possible but hey, its a hell of a dream!
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Old 07-20-2005, 09:39 PM   #41
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In an r/c plane you can kill an brushless by over loading it will too much prop or too big a gear ratio. The heat and magnetic field from the stator degauss the rotor magnet. It will still run but power is way down.

In cars gear ratio would be the main thing to look out for. I am certain that a Brushless would be a lot harder to ruin than a brushed motor though. Neo rotors would be a lot harder to ruin than Ferrite rotors.
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Old 07-21-2005, 11:20 AM   #42
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One thing to think about.

It is possible to run a hot enough brushed motor to NOT be fast on alot of tracks.... Therefore, as far as brushless out-performing brushed- In many applications, we have the batt power to run such hot brushed motors that it is really overkill.

With the new long run (xxx lemans costing about $7 most places) I think brushed motors are still very economical. And for the backyard basher or novice racer, a standard speedo can be had for reletively cheaply, whereas brushless speedos are spendy.
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Old 07-21-2005, 03:56 PM   #43
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yeah, the sc's can be had for real cheap, but does the basher know he needs a lathe and brushes every couple of runs to keep the motor in tip top condition? a 5800 ss can be found for $170 all day on ebay - a killer deal considering the performance & long term cost. For everyone but the occasional driver or the newbie just trying out the hobby, brushless will be the cheapest/ most enjoyable way to go. God, I hate brushed motors.
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Old 07-21-2005, 05:09 PM   #44
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A backyard basher isn't concerned with "Tip-Top" shape. They just want to play.

When I was a kid, I had a JRXt, with a saphire 17t motor. That thing went for months, and I never took the motor apart. When I finally did, you know what? It wasn't in THAT bad of shape.

But I get where your comming from.

Personally, if the cost was relatively the same, I would take a brushless over a brushed motor anyday. As long as the performace was there.
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Old 07-22-2005, 07:57 AM   #45
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Yup, bashers do no maintenance at all. They bolt stuff on and run it until it won't go. Then they take it to a hobby shop and say it wont go can you fit it?

RTR has been great for the industry but has spawned a generation of R/C'ers that don't know how to work on their cars and could care less about learning.
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