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Old 07-18-2005, 01:37 AM   #16
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I consider BL to be a "work in progress" motor. There are too many loopholes for a BL motor to replace every catagory available to electric RC racing.

I foresee that in the future, there will be a racing only ESC that will enable race organizer to put some kind of device that prevent a racer from changing his/her settings while racing. Right now they only way that we know if a racer is racing a setting is to take the racer's word then tech him. There is still possibility that the racer change the setting before handing over the car hence loophole which is why BL equipped rc cars is better off in mod or open classes at this moment.

We had been able to run as we are now in brushed technology because we had implemented rules and regulations for it. Do we have one for BL motors? No. We had basic rules and regulations but it is not specific enough to meet the classes.

I see battery technology going backwards in capacity for sprint racing. Why? Because the current battery technology and capacity has prolonged races and if it continued by the time BL motors are generally available, you will have club races that needs two days to complete because the qualifiers and the mains got longer.

10 to 15 years maybe too long to figure in BL technology into the racing world. I would say less than 10. Brushed motors may eventually die out but when exactly, nobody knows. I feel that brushed motors are environmentally unsafe and produces just enough toxin to eventually ruin your life....HAAAA!!! Got your attention.

Just my two cents...
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Old 07-18-2005, 05:17 AM   #17
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Ha, i cnt believe im reading this, brushless was first invented for ofroad for torque and longer lasting but neways.

My V2 7x1 against a Hacker 6t Brushless.....V2 had it all the way.
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Old 07-18-2005, 07:47 AM   #18
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Thank you for all your input guys, this is getting interesting..

I pretty much agree with DinoXXX, BL will take away all the setup work on motors that can give you an advantage at Races.Yes BL will put everyone equal but we will loose some fun IMO...

I think I will still get a comm lathe, BL wont be popular for the next 5 years...and when a BL will be as powerful as a Brushed 7T well, we will probably running 6 and 5T by then...
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Old 07-18-2005, 11:34 AM   #19
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Well if you guys want to waste time on brushed motors it's up to you. But when people are beating you with a brushless setup, don't complain. It's not their fault they don't want to waste their hard earned money.
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Old 07-18-2005, 12:11 PM   #20
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I understand your point but I dont consider thAt buying a comm lathe is a waste of money since we will still be running brushed for another 3 \ 5 years and brushed motors are still faster and more powerfull in RC cars thats a fact
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Old 07-18-2005, 12:23 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JevUK
Well if you guys want to waste time on brushed motors it's up to you. But when people are beating you with a brushless setup, don't complain. It's not their fault they don't want to waste their hard earned money.

Please donít get me wrong. I wonít mind getting BL myself.

On the other hand Iím into the hobby because I love to work on motors and cars as well as racing. If I canít mess with my motor or engine it will take half of the fun away.

When order one of the brushed motors from one of the top motor builders out there. Most likely they will ask me what type of the application I will be using with the motor.

Obviously there is not a single motor or the engine suitable for all tracks, layouts and racing conditions.

Itís just my thought.
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Old 07-18-2005, 01:39 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by komkit
Please donít get me wrong. I wonít mind getting BL myself.

On the other hand Iím into the hobby because I love to work on motors and cars as well as racing. If I canít mess with my motor or engine it will take half of the fun away.

When order one of the brushed motors from one of the top motor builders out there. Most likely they will ask me what type of the application I will be using with the motor.

Obviously there is not a single motor or the engine suitable for all tracks, layouts and racing conditions.

Itís just my thought.
I agree with you on this. Not every motor is good for all tracks and Brushless motors are the same. Will need different ones for different applications.
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Old 07-18-2005, 01:46 PM   #23
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Brushed motors are making advancements in leaps and bounds as we speak. How long will it be before we see a 5-pole arm legalized? I imagine it won't be long... At least as far as modifieds are concerned. How about rare earth magnets? Hmmm... maybe? I know a lot of it depends on ROAR, and with them making such sweeping changes for 2005 overnight for brushless systems, I know the brushed manufacturers will have some leverage for next year. I hear in 2006 we will see some awesome changes in the ROAR rulebook to allow for better brushed tech.

Brushed will never die -- my personal opinion. The starter on your car? Brushed motor. The motor that drives my swamp cooler? Yup, brushed motor. Dremel tool? Brushes there. Same with all my power tools. Brushed motors aren't going anywhere anytime soon.
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Old 07-18-2005, 02:11 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by handyrandyrc
Brushed motors are making advancements in leaps and bounds as we speak. How long will it be before we see a 5-pole arm legalized? I imagine it won't be long... At least as far as modifieds are concerned. How about rare earth magnets? Hmmm... maybe? I know a lot of it depends on ROAR, and with them making such sweeping changes for 2005 overnight for brushless systems, I know the brushed manufacturers will have some leverage for next year. I hear in 2006 we will see some awesome changes in the ROAR rulebook to allow for better brushed tech.

Brushed will never die -- my personal opinion. The starter on your car? Brushed motor. The motor that drives my swamp cooler? Yup, brushed motor. Dremel tool? Brushes there. Same with all my power tools. Brushed motors aren't going anywhere anytime soon.
The thing about Rare Earth Magnets is that they are VERY strong, you will need to run 7 cells to get the best out of them on the Current Motor BluePrint. The only other thing is make the Magnets smaller/shorter to make them sufficient for 6 cell racing. I dont know how this would affect the use of the current ESC.
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Old 07-18-2005, 02:21 PM   #25
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We wouldn't need to change our speed controls, whatsoever. The motors would still have 2 magnetic poles (north and south) and positive and negative terminals. My dremel tool, which seems to have at least 7 segments, has two poles (although they are wraps of wire instead of actual magnets) and positive and negative terminals. Torque is monstrous and RPM? -- well it can turn 35,000 under no load. Under load is another story, but it has so much torque, you could gear to the moon. These types of motors should be possible.
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Old 07-18-2005, 03:50 PM   #26
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I personally don't ever want to run another brushed motor if I can help it. A large part of this is that for the last 15 years, I've been forced to spend large amounts of money on a (modified) motor that may last 30-40 runs at most. That cash, plus the cost of $4 for a set of brushes that need to be replaced every 4-5 runs always peeved me, but now as "new technology" we finally have brushes that won't torch your motor and can last a very long time. I personally feel that the major motor manufacturers have always had this technology but held out to pilfer our pockets even more. Only since the proliferation of brushless have the motor makers made any attempt at reducing the cost of running a mod motor - -and I personally feel like I've been taken for a ride for too long. IMO brushless motors are the best thing to happen to club level racing for a looong time.......................
Hopefully brushless will eliminate brushed motors entirely within a couple years.
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Old 07-18-2005, 04:10 PM   #27
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I do agree with you on the brushes. However, these brushes have certainly been around forever. I mean, all the manufacturers get their brushes from larger sources that serve all kinds of electric motor brush markets. They just haven't been brought to our market, I would imagine. And you are indeed right, it's probably the motor companies, counting on those high-margin items like brushes and springs that we all need to buy. How much do you think a brush costs for a large company like Trinity or Reedy? I would imagine "cents", and then we pay 4-5 bucks a pair.

However, with these newer brushes, the cost has gone up, with the XXX Lemans brushes at 15 bucks a pair, and the Reedy "go forever" brushes nearly 30 bucks. Do the brushes actually cost more to make? I doubt very much -- I imagine it's still "cents"... But they charging us more because of a "perceived" value? (ie. they last as long as 4-5 sets of the old ones?)

Stuff to think about for sure.

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Old 07-18-2005, 04:20 PM   #28
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its like a 2 stroke 4 stroke debate, brushed still has a long way to go but itll be there eventually.
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Old 07-19-2005, 09:00 AM   #29
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I like your analogy between the 2 & 4 strokers. The nitro engine thread has a link to someone who stuffed a 4 stroker os in a revo. Waay sweet. Brushless is still in it's infancy, but I don't think it has very far to go to compete with brushed - mostly just the sc size. Anyone who has'nt driven a brushless (sensored) is missing out. Within a couple of years we'll be running lipos with a 3 turn equivilent motor. Can't wait.
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Old 07-19-2005, 01:32 PM   #30
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The new novak esc plenty small enough, that's just nit picking.

There is no need to wait once the GTB+velocity are released. They are far superior to anything the brushed world has to offer.

Don't waste any more time or money on brushed technology. Motor manufactures will have to move on to brushless tech for the good of all racers.
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