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Old 07-14-2005, 03:18 AM   #31
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im thinking handphone=cell phone, right?
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Old 07-14-2005, 04:32 AM   #32
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stock could mean....
23T stock, 27T stock, JMRCA stock.... you name it
I dont even believe there is a div call "stock"...XD
(Hey, if I replace brushless motor's ball bearing with metal bearing, is that called "stock"?)

so seriously, when you talking about stock limiation and innovation, make sure u stat the rule clearly. ROAR/IFMAR rule is very different with JMRCA.

Price limit? what price limit? We don't have price limit here...

ps. Asia usually follow JMRCA rule, where only certified motor could race.
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Old 07-14-2005, 06:46 AM   #33
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Well what about Checkpoint...They are making a stock and 19T locked endbell models soon...isn't that inovation....Longer comm, longer brush life and Ultra fast motor, now that is inovative in my book, save me money and keep proformance...If you think they don't know what they are doing...Ask Josh Newman....Reedy Winner, Ko Winner, Norca Winner....all within a month...All with checkpoint motors... WHat about Tebo in off road...Winner should be his nickname...Seems there is a new motor in town...Keep your eyes peeled for the Stock and 19T motors from them.

OK vent over,
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Old 07-14-2005, 07:08 AM   #34
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If we were able to run 5 segement motors (it would be tough to have more due to brush size required) they would be ALOT faster, ALOT more efficent last forever, only downside is people would have to go up in turns or else they would destroy the batteries and speedos, lol. I can see no good reason why they dont allow 5 segement motors, the starting cost might be a bit higher, but its worth it, IMO.

BTW, about checkpoint, its one thing to build a dirt motor, all it has to be is smooth and driveable, and espically for 2wd buggy, you dont need crazy rip like you do in onroad, although I was very impressed to see it do well in onroad, however what turns were they running? If it is like the orion when you have to go down a turn or two to be equivelent to a regular motor, it wont make sense for a 27t or 19t application where you are stuck to a single turn.
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Old 07-14-2005, 08:28 AM   #35
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As far as I know, the Checkpoint guys were all running 7 and 8 turn motors at Reedy, just like the rest of us. They're doing very well in off road as well.
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Old 07-14-2005, 08:44 AM   #36
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Almost seems beyond the point of a stock motor to incorporate the latest technology. I think ROAR rules loosly base stock motor rules on the sealed endbell mabuchi motors. Just run 19 turn or lower if everybody wants more speed, run brushless if you want longer motor life. ROAR even named 19 spec motors "superstock". Everybody runs stock class for their own reasons i guess, but i can't imagine its for the speed or power, maybe cost and more competitive racing, but the budget modified motors rule out the low cost factor. And you could have competitive racing making everybody running one wind of motor. I think asking for newer better technology on stock motors is one of those "be carefull what you wish for, you just might get it", then your stuck with the price increase.
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Old 07-14-2005, 09:16 AM   #37
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Personally, and I know a lot of people are going to disagree with me, but I've felt for a long time that stock motors should be for the novice and sportsman classes. If you can't handle the power of a 19 turn, you don't belong racing at a national level. (I know I'm going to get flamed for that one! ) 19 turn should be the "Expert Stock" or the national level stock motor. Guys spend tons of money on their cars and batteries, and dynos, chargers, tires etc... all to go faster and they still run stock motors that just completely limit the speed of the car. Then guys that run stock complain about the motors not being fast enough. You're running stock. It's supposed to be slow. That's why I think it should be left to the beginners. So they can learn how to drive and setup a car without being over powered by the motor. I know manufacturers have drivers racing and winning stock national titles for publicity to sell motors since stock is still the most popular class. But I think stock motors need to go away even at the club level (except for the beginners) and make 19 turn the new stock.
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Old 07-14-2005, 10:07 AM   #38
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Mr Shookie, Checkpoint motors are a great innovation, but Josh Newman would have won all those races with any motor. He is that good.

Jon, I believe stock motors do have their place at a club level. Some racers just can't handle more speed. I believe there should be no stock nationals, or at the very least no sponsered drivers in stock. If your good enough to have sponsers, you should be good enough to drive mod. There is no stock at the worlds for a reason.

Ponder this; why does ROAR allow the latest in innovation, ie; brushless systems, but continue to force us to run brushed motor technology that was developed in the 1800's? And even better, why do the motor companies and local tracks allow this worthless organization to dictate policy?
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Old 07-14-2005, 10:37 AM   #39
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That's what I mean. They have their place at the club level in the hands of a sportsman driver. (Dillon for example ) Someone who can't handle the speed of a 19 turn or mod yet. At a national championship level, they don't belong.

Again, this is just my opinion and I'm sure there's many others out there that disagree and that's fine if you do. You're entitled to your opinion too.
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Old 07-14-2005, 10:54 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Kerr
Personally, and I know a lot of people are going to disagree with me, but I've felt for a long time that stock motors should be for the novice and sportsman classes. If you can't handle the power of a 19 turn, you don't belong racing at a national level. (I know I'm going to get flamed for that one! ) 19 turn should be the "Expert Stock" or the national level stock motor. Guys spend tons of money on their cars and batteries, and dynos, chargers, tires etc... all to go faster and they still run stock motors that just completely limit the speed of the car. Then guys that run stock complain about the motors not being fast enough. You're running stock. It's supposed to be slow. That's why I think it should be left to the beginners. So they can learn how to drive and setup a car without being over powered by the motor. I know manufacturers have drivers racing and winning stock national titles for publicity to sell motors since stock is still the most popular class. But I think stock motors need to go away even at the club level (except for the beginners) and make 19 turn the new stock.
Well put Jon, but don't you think that that stock racing lets the driver "create" his speed, by motor tuning? Thus taking a "even playing field" and coloring it with the drivers abilities and talent? my .02
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Old 07-14-2005, 11:02 AM   #41
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Although it sounds good on paper, what would you do when all the stockers flood to 19T? When they see everyone leave their class, their pride is gonna go too. So they jump up to the next level to hang with the big dogs. Then we have a new breed of whiners...
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Old 07-14-2005, 11:03 AM   #42
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I went down to the LHS a few months back, and they had Peak stock motors with V2 endbells. I have not had a chance to run it, but I imagine it runs similar to the other Hellfire motors. However, the torque would be a bit "softer" since the round brushes "ease" the current onto the segment, rather than "blasting it full-power" like the square edge of a standard brush.
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Old 07-14-2005, 11:05 AM   #43
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"Ponder this; why does ROAR allow the latest in innovation, ie; brushless systems, but continue to force us to run brushed motor technology that was developed in the 1800's? And even better, why do the motor companies and local tracks allow this worthless organization to dictate policy?"

well now, thats an oxymoron, Roar allows the latest innovation (brushless), but continue to force us to run brushed technology from the 1800's.

Most local tracks don't require every racer join ROAR to race their local racing(level 1 race), and just about every track in the country uses ROAR rules as a basis for the rules of their races because no other organization has such a complete set of rules for every class.

Manufacturers, don't have to build motors according to ROAR rules or submit their motors for ROAR approval, but apparently, motors just don't sell as well unless they are. Take Trinity for instance, Trinity has more ROAR approved motors on the list than all the other motor companies. Yet Ernie Provetti (Trinity CEO) complains about ROAR and its outdated ways and says that it needs to be reformed. Trinity won't sponser any ROAR race, and won't send any of its sponsered drivers to a ROAR race (other sponsers withstanding). But it seems that when Trinity tried to sell a stock motor (binary outlaw stock) with quad magnets (latest innovation), nobody wanted it and it was discontinued. So i would say that worthless organization's policies are good for selling motors. Especially the most antiquated and out of date "stock" motors. Apparently, Trinity agrees. Imagine that.

wow, I am amazed at how much and what people blame on ROAR.
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Old 07-14-2005, 11:14 AM   #44
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Wow, you really missed the point. Don't you think if roar allowed newer brushed motor technology that the motor companies would make them, and people would buy them? Then maybe we wont fry our brushes every run, cut the com every run, overheat and melt our speed controllers. There is a huge market out there of products designed to keep motors cooler because batteries and traction have overcome our outdated motors.

I believe if brushed motor companies want to survive in the future, there has to be some rule changes made.
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Old 07-14-2005, 11:21 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Kerr
That's what I mean. They have their place at the club level in the hands of a sportsman driver. (Dillon for example ) Someone who can't handle the speed of a 19 turn or mod yet. At a national championship level, they don't belong.
That's a really good idea! Stock should be a class up to the regional level after that only 19T and Open Mod.

patrick - Brushless is not developed yet. The Novak 5800 system is as fast as a 19T but is not as reliable due to speedo overheating, etc. For Mod no one can get a brushless speedo to live long enough to actually sell anything that is as fast as a 7-8 tun brushed mod. They will get it soon and it will be great but we aren't there yet.

I agree ROAR is done...but what else have we got? Until we have a proven alternative we have to work with what we have.
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