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Old 07-13-2005, 08:03 PM   #1
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Default fusion batteries-----GREAT COMPANY-----

i had orderd 3 packs from them about 2 weeks ago and it was sent out thru dhl. well on the expected day of delivery i got nothing but a web page saying it was deliverd. i called dhl since they are the ones who were spose to deliver it and i got the run around and a whole lot of bs. after repeated calls to dhl i was told that " they have noted my problem on the invoice/ticket/wtf ever its called and that was all they are going to do ( thanks mark @ dhl) so i sent out an email to fusion to tell them what had happend and that i didnt not blame them for what ever happend and that i would keep them upto date. so the weekend went buy and dhl was not fer nice or helpful to me and monday morn i got a reply from fusion saying that they were so sorry and they will look into it. well, fusion handled it with dhl, sorted me out and helped me with my order ( thank you Judy @ fusion) i thought i was so outta luck with dhl and was really bummed then judy at fusion made it all better and restored my faith in customer support even when it was not their fault. fusion now has a customer for life and i will force all my frieds to buy their products.

Thanks again Fusion and Judy for everything!

dave.


ps. buy fusion batteries........
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Old 07-13-2005, 09:00 PM   #2
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p.s. when buying fusion batteries note that the cut off is at .95 rather than .90 like all other companies, this makes the voltage numbers higher
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Old 07-13-2005, 09:23 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adootindotin
p.s. when buying fusion batteries note that the cut off is at .95 rather than .90 like all other companies, this makes the voltage numbers higher
Not sure what that has to do with customer service, but......


I guess .95 cut-off is working so far

Off-Road Cactus Classic TQ'd & won Stock Buggy/Stock Truck
ROAR Carpet Nationals Stock Champion
Reedy Race of Champions TQ'd & won both 19turn & Open Mod
NORRCA Oval Nationals Stock Champion
Florida State On-Road Series Modified Champion

Shall we go on
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Old 07-13-2005, 09:50 PM   #4
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i should note that i have not had the honor of running the fusion packs yet ( due in some time friday morn) but if they are anything even close to the quality of cust support i have recieved then they will be the best batts i have run to date.
and thanks for the info about the cutoff, i didnt know that.


dave...
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Old 07-13-2005, 09:52 PM   #5
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The .95 is a minor difference.....john has tested and tested and feels it gives a better stable number......thats it...

And REALLY....

Fusion batteries powered Peter Robinson to his Carpet Nats title and Reedy Race title....both in SPEC classes, which are much more voltage hungry than a mod class....

Later EddieO
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Old 07-13-2005, 10:40 PM   #6
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0.05v...come on, I doubt most the equipment any of us to charge/monitor/discharge is accurate to within that tollerance.

There are no standards between any of the matchers, so just because one matcher says its discharged at 30A, there are about 10 other variables that can affect the numbers.

As Eddie basically says, go by reputation and results.

I agree you could maybe tell the difference between 0.05v from the same matcher (same set up, high repeatability and reproducability, <thats gauge R&R for the geeks out there) but I REALLY REALLY challenge that there is any real quantifiable correlation between numbers from differnet matchers.

There are far too many variables. All you need to know is that a 1.17 from one matcher is 0.09 less less than a 1.179 from the same matcher. It may be a 1.16 measured on the same equipment with the same set up at another matcher.


This is not slamming anyone, its just a fact that manufacturing measurements inherently have a high variance, UNLESS, you control ALL variable external to the measured, desirable variables.
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Old 07-13-2005, 10:40 PM   #7
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Thanks EddieO....Perfect post!
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Old 07-13-2005, 10:56 PM   #8
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Try changing the ambient temperature in the matching room 10 degrees and see what that does to your numbers.
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Old 07-13-2005, 10:58 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Smash
Try changing the ambient temperature in the matching room 10 degrees and see what that does to your numbers.
No doubt about that

I've been in the Fusion Battery Lab....Pretty impressive
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Old 07-13-2005, 11:13 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Smash
Try changing the ambient temperature in the matching room 10 degrees and see what that does to your numbers.
Exactly!

Add to that humidity, variable contact resistance....have you any idea how tight your tollerances have to be to measure REPEATABLY to 0.001 volts????

Just out of interest, do any of the matchers apply statistical analysis to the measurement process to identify the key variables, and thus develop controls for them.

There are some simple tests that can be run to analyse the significance of any variable on the final result.

For example, changing the operator of the machine usually introduces a step change in a measurement range.
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Old 07-13-2005, 11:14 PM   #11
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Cutting off at .95 vs .90 will MAYBE be a .001-.002 difference at best.....most times its about a .0005 or so....

so at worst, a 1.179 pack could be a 1.178...

However, it also cuts about 2-4 seconds of runtime off the label.........

Later EddieO
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Old 07-14-2005, 08:14 AM   #12
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Ok I guess I will chime in here and explain the reason for doing 0.95 instead of 0.90 . In every other industry except for Rc as far as I know all battery testing and grading is done by discharging to 1.0vdc. I would love to do that but this industry would cry foul,voodoo, heretic....!!!!!! There are a few reasons that we do 0.95 so here goes. First has to do with the way hat I understand how a turbo matcher works. It has been explained to me that a turbomatcher displays the voltage as an average from the last 5 samples taken. This is a running average. Meaning that as samples are taken the last 5 are constantly updated and displayed. Knowing this if I really wanted to get a turbomatcher to stop discharging at 0.90 I would have to find a setup that takes into account the averaging process. I feel that 0.95 gets is nearer to that. Second, if you have ever looked at the discharge curve for nimh or even nicd cells you would have seen that below 1.0vdc the curve drops of very very rapidly towards 0 vdc. Try this experiment once at the track....discharge a pack to 5.70vdc (0.95per cell) then try to run your car. I would bet that it doesnt go very far and isnt very fast. Why then would you want to match batteries at point in the curve below what is useful energy. The point here is not that the numbers on the labels are so different but that the matches are that much more stable and indicate what is useful. I could make voltage numbers go up on cells if I ran my lab a few degrees warmer. But the point is why. I am not hiding the fact that we do something different. In my opinion I believe that we are doing something better. Results speak for them selves. I am sure someone can say xyz company has won more big races than us but have they won as big of races as we have when their comapny was as new as ours without drivers on salary. Good batteries will always show their hand on the track. I am looking for the best performance I can get with the tightest match I can get with the best cycle life of the match. I hope this shed some light on why we do things the way we do. Doing 0.95 cutoff was never done in an attempt to mislead people or to inflate numbers.

John
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Old 07-14-2005, 08:31 AM   #13
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i think maybe some people(or one person) is confused with discharge rate, some companies will discharge at 20amps to get inflated voltage #'s
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Old 07-14-2005, 11:09 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odawg315
i think maybe some people(or one person) is confused with discharge rate, some companies will discharge at 20amps to get inflated voltage #'s
Integy! If you look at their cells on their website, their 1.25V cell is actually a 1.167 or so at 30A. They have both discharge rates and voltages on their cells. Snag a picture, and look close...
-Josh
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Old 07-14-2005, 11:35 AM   #15
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A company with great customer service and the willingness to explain their procedures. How often does that happen in this industry? Well done Fusion, now if there were only more like you!
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