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Old 07-13-2005, 01:11 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by BullFrog
Scrubb - The racers just want to race and then complain. Even if elections were on the computer I really doubt it would be much different- why because the racers have better things to do -just ask them.

I don't know about that. If you look at the sheer number of people who complain about ROAR on this board alone (myself included), an internet election is one thing the complainers are begging for. If ROAR affords us that, there is no reason for us not to vote. It doesn't have to internet only, it could be combined with mail-in ballots. I know that I would've voted, had I received a ballot in time. If offered the opportunity to vote online,I most certainly would.
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Old 07-13-2005, 01:13 PM   #62
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I agree completly with Bullfrog hear where people say they don't care about whom is the president or runs Roar until it screws the person over or the compliant doesn't do what comsumer(racer) wants. I say this is the U.S. National elections on a smaller scale. We studied this and in any place where a person can vote only about 20% actually vote. The other 80% don't care or dont think that the outcome will affect them. I know that some people stated that they didn't get the Rev Up balets but, for everyone else, if you didn't vote don't bother complaining about what is going one because you gave up your right to Bit(h when you didn't vote.

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Old 07-13-2005, 01:58 PM   #63
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"Most" of the ballets? how would you know if your not even a ROAR member? Instead of giving some vauge made up assumption of "most", tell all of us exactly how many ROAR members didn't get their ballot on time? I'm absolutely positive you don't know or could even get close. In fact, i'm sure you figured "most" because of the small amount of complaints you read on this one website, and maybe a few people you know personally didn't get there's ontime (not that you even looked into the posibility of an error at the us postal service). Becareful who you scream out wrong too without some serious factual info to back up your typing.

Of coarse putting voting on the computer won't make much of a difference, sure you'll get a few more votes, but not the majority of members still. If voting was so important to the "complaining" members on this board, they would get off there lazy butt, fill out the ballot and lick a stamp and vote. They are just NOT INTRESTED IN VOTING. And if you didn't get your ballot, why didn't you ask Dawn Sanchez on this website for help?
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Old 07-13-2005, 02:08 PM   #64
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I am not screaming out at anyone thank you very much I just voicing my opinion so, I think you need to stop making assumptions youself, and I don't just look at this website i actually am on 10 or 12 different forums a day so don't tell me that I havent done my research, I not say it was anyones fault for not voting it was there choice. Roar is at fault but, I am talking about the people on this forum and others that complain when they had a balet. Okay NOT SCREAMING YOU OR ANYONE GOT THAT JUST VOICING MY OPINION ON WHAT I HAVE LOOKED AT THUS FAR.

OH YEA I AM A ROAR MEMBER
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Old 07-13-2005, 02:30 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrubb
"Most" of the ballets? how would you know if your not even a ROAR member? Instead of giving some vauge made up assumption of "most", tell all of us exactly how many ROAR members didn't get their ballot on time? I'm absolutely positive you don't know or could even get close. In fact, i'm sure you figured "most" because of the small amount of complaints you read on this one website, and maybe a few people you know personally didn't get there's ontime (not that you even looked into the posibility of an error at the us postal service). Becareful who you scream out wrong too without some serious factual info to back up your typing.

Of coarse putting voting on the computer won't make much of a difference, sure you'll get a few more votes, but not the majority of members still. If voting was so important to the "complaining" members on this board, they would get off there lazy butt, fill out the ballot and lick a stamp and vote. They are just NOT INTRESTED IN VOTING. And if you didn't get your ballot, why didn't you ask Dawn Sanchez on this website for help?
The ballot crap happened to me and others in the DC area while I was a ROAR member... I also posted this in the ROAR thread.......
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Old 07-13-2005, 02:41 PM   #66
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As a racer, I don't really want to race in the rain, but it can be done with great success http://www.team-orion.com/media/euro04tc-final2.wmv
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Old 07-13-2005, 03:01 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrubb
"Most" of the ballets? how would you know if your not even a ROAR member? Instead of giving some vauge made up assumption of "most", tell all of us exactly how many ROAR members didn't get their ballot on time? I'm absolutely positive you don't know or could even get close. In fact, i'm sure you figured "most" because of the small amount of complaints you read on this one website, and maybe a few people you know personally didn't get there's ontime (not that you even looked into the posibility of an error at the us postal service). Becareful who you scream out wrong too without some serious factual info to back up your typing.

Of coarse putting voting on the computer won't make much of a difference, sure you'll get a few more votes, but not the majority of members still. If voting was so important to the "complaining" members on this board, they would get off there lazy butt, fill out the ballot and lick a stamp and vote. They are just NOT INTRESTED IN VOTING. And if you didn't get your ballot, why didn't you ask Dawn Sanchez on this website for help?
Where in my post did I say most of the ballots? I stated that I did not receive MY Rev-up in time to vote. I spoke for noone else. I guess the postal service screws up each time my Rev-up is sent out, because they always seem to take forever. I appreciate your enthusiasm for the sanctioning body, but ROAR does have issues, and that's one of them. Also, was my post really so inflammatory that you need to lash out like that? I thought my post was pretty objective and reasonable.

I have almost 20 years of involvement in racing and there will always be issues with any sanctioning body. I personally feel that online voting could help, and even if it doesn't help, it removes one more excuse from the complainers.

Also, I WAS a ROAR member, and I will not be again untill significant changes are made.
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Old 07-13-2005, 05:52 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by DerekB
Tomorrow I meet Rick for an indepth article with him. I'm making a list of questions to ask him and I thought this would be an opportunity to see if anybody had some good questions to ask? I've covered a lot of topics, but i'm sure there has to be a few people with some questions.

This isn't a promise that I'll use or even ask him the questions, but be nice.

What is ROAR and how does it help promote RC racing?

Why don't ROAR executives get paid to do their job?

How much work do you get out of somebody that volunteers for a job?
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Old 07-13-2005, 05:54 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T. Hodge
..Why don't ROAR executives get paid to do their job?

How much work do you get out of somebody that volunteers for a job?

I've been pondering these very same questions...
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Old 07-13-2005, 06:11 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CypressMidWest
Where in my post did I say most ? I stated that I did not receive MY Rev-up in time to vote. I spoke for noone else. I guess the postal service screws up each time my Rev-up is sent out, because they always seem to take forever. I appreciate your enthusiasm for the sanctioning body, but ROAR does have issues, and that's one of them. Also, was my post really so inflammatory that you need to lash out like that? I thought my post was pretty objective and reasonable.

I have almost 20 years of involvement in racing and there will always be issues with any sanctioning body. I personally feel that online voting could help, and even if it doesn't help, it removes one more excuse from the complainers.

Also, I WAS a ROAR member, and I will not be again untill significant changes are made.
cypress you said " I most certainly would! "
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Old 07-13-2005, 06:23 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T. Hodge
What is ROAR and how does it help promote RC racing?

Why don't ROAR executives get paid to do their job?

How much work do you get out of somebody that volunteers for a job?

One of the Ex Cm members does get paid.

It all depends on that person doing the volunteering!
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Old 07-13-2005, 08:09 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by raffaelli
One of the Ex Cm members does get paid.

It all depends on that person doing the volunteering!

I understand. However I feel that if we want some great things to come out of ROAR we can not expect it to be volunteer work.
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Old 07-14-2005, 01:26 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raffaelli
One of the Ex Cm members does get paid.

It all depends on that person doing the volunteering!
This is sort of correct. There is a single paid ROAR employee and that is the membership administrator Fred Hohwart. He is a member of the Ex-Com but it is a non-voting position so it doesn't quite stack up the same.

What up Derek, long time no hackin' ya

For the record, I am a ROAR member and I did vote in the last election so I have the right to talk smack but choose be more constructive. While I think there are some serious problems with the ROAR structure, I do think there are many things that can be done to remedy it. Todd hit the nail on the head about "volunteers" and how much work you can expect out of them. I run a group of volunteers that help manage our online communications and the pure nature of volunteer work is just like asking somebody to do you a favor. It may happen, and maybe it won't, but you soon find that you have zero control and minimal accountability. Perhaps a salaried set of positions with written duties embedded into the structure could be a good thing. It has been said a bunch of times before, but WRT a successful structure and promotion of the sport, one needs to look no further than AMA. Those guys have their act together and the structure is tight as far as I can see. Also after pouring over many EFRA meeting notes those guys seem on top of things too, albiet a little too argumentative and combative at times.

Several people have touched on the factory guys in stock vs. 19t, etc. and there is a simple solution to this. Either make official pro/factory classes or make a tiered system. Would you like to see a perfect example of letting the classes roam free? Look at Nextel Cup, Busch, and Craftsman truck series'. Sure you can make all the arguments in the world that the Cup guys deserve to drive in the lower classes. Or their paying sponsors want to get the best return on their investment but the bottom line is, most of those drivers in the lower classes don't want them there. They are taking away money and points that the developing drivers want and need. I have seen a few tiered systems in r/c on local levels and it is something that could be easily implemented nationally if ROAR put it's collective noggins to work.

The other thing that caught me were comments about "lame duck" representatives. The reply was something about we the membership electing them and that is not quite accurate. We may elect the president and the region leaders but we as a group have zero say about the Ex-Com. That is solely up to the President and maybe the VP of ROAR to appoint them. This doesn't work that well in our real US government either and does not balance out special interests so why should we do it? Right now we have an Ex-Com that seems to be "fuel" loaded which doesn't bother me to much because that is my primary focus. However, a huge percentage of ROAR members (probably the majority) are electric racers and they need solid representation as well.

I do race electric too when time permits but I would hesitate big time to attend any level 3 and 4 races for now because they don't appear to be handled as well as they should be. The ROAR management of electric racing has been all over the board and not focused in the right areas for too long and this needs to be remedied.

Where to start? Give me a call Rick and I'm sure I could come up with something in a few hours Seriously, this is it right here. Post to rctech and make official communications/announcements/entry forms/ballots happen here. This is widely accepted as the best r/c forum internationally as is evidenced by the top racing talent that frequent this board. Nothing of a knock to sgrid.com since I have used that system forever but most users cannot deal with the antiquated and funky software. Not to mention sgrid has nearly a 100% fuel focus so you can see the conflict of interest to giving the electric guys a fair shake, eh?
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Old 07-14-2005, 04:24 AM   #74
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You are right about the volunteers- I'm one of them. I also race electric on-road. Since I became a region director I know what I've done.You could ask most anyone here in Florida and Nationally (1993-1994). Yes I do promote ROAR. Do I get calls from people wanting my help .Yes I was approached many years ago about switching to another organization I stayed (not sure if they are still around).
Just look at the ones posting here- it's 90% the same people that always post everywhere.
If you can barely get people to vote when you personnely hand them a ballot and say your going to send it in for them (saving them the stamp).What makes you think they are going to turn on the computer when they get home and vote?Presently just the people talking on the boards now.
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Old 07-14-2005, 08:41 AM   #75
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I could not agree with you anymore about their being a PRO class. There is no reason for non sponsored racers to go race against racers who are making $40,000-60,000 a year as a salary for racing. It is simply stupid. How many times do we see a national event go to a track, then the following months after the race the track closes or has no business. The racers who went to this race spent all their resources to go compete against a Pavidis or Cavalieri and they got smoked. No one wants to loose. Everyone wants to win. I envision Joe Schmo going to a race and racing the open mod class and bring home a huge trophy saying he won the Mod nats...then a few months later he has 3 magazines to show all of his friends at work..."Look at me...I am in the magazine". How cool would that be?

I have brought this topic to discussion with ROAR and have gotten no where!!!
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