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Old 10-25-2013, 10:34 AM   #1
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Default Big race, spec tire for stock 1/12

i want to start a discussion about running a spec tire for stock 1/12 at big races. this is not necessarily for club racing, but for a big races.......say the races that are allowed in this forum.

i love stock 1/12, i run it at every big race, and i will until i win one.....which may never happen, but im not gonna quit trying, but here are some of the things i hate about stock 1/12 racing.

-bringing a bunch of different tire combos to big races
-spending the money to have tires that you may or may not run
-trying to guess what will work or not work for the next run
-wasting a run on a tire combo that did not work
-second guessing if i am on the right tire
-truing tires at the race
-combos that are "one run"

i guess, what im looking for, is your opinions, on rather your decision to run stock at a big race would be swayed one way or another by an announcement that there was going to be a spec tire at a big race. my personal response would be no, i would run it anyways, and actually enjoy it more not having to worry about the issues listed above. it does not matter to me if the tire that was spec was necessarily the fastest combo possible, but if it worked well, and everyone was on it, does it make a difference?

it could be bring your own, or buy them at the race, but you have to run the tire with the strip in them.

i would really like to have a constructive discussion on this topic and not have it turn into a flame war.
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Old 10-25-2013, 10:38 AM   #2
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Are you thinking spec tire only or spec tire with other limits like minimum diameter?
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Old 10-25-2013, 10:41 AM   #3
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im talking about a spec tire with a stripe, just like world gt. you can run them however you choose, but you have to be on that tire.
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Old 10-25-2013, 10:43 AM   #4
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This would be GREAT! This is the reason why I have shyed away from 12th Scale.
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Old 10-25-2013, 11:01 AM   #5
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I agree, it would be great to make things easier for racers who don't want to invest in epic R&D on tires for any given race. Works well in WGT!

To make it even more appealing, the spec tire should be made cost effective and easily accessible. Like the WGT tires are these days. I am not a fan of the Pro One spec tires using CEFX offsets (easily one of the most rare of 1/12 offsets, different than pretty much any other production pan car) and requiring drivers to buy aftermarket hubs for their cars, but its a good start toward a solid spec class tire.
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Old 10-25-2013, 11:12 AM   #6
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I am of mixed opinion on this as I was when WGT went to a spec tire...Personally I've never been a fan of spec tires in pan cars as it always seemed that everyone had different combinations that worked for their car. But I gotta say it works in WGT and I really enjoy WGT. That said I have often contemplated running only 1/12th at big races because of having to get the WGT spec tire at the race and truing it there. I doubt a big race would let you bring your own spec tires so running 1/12th with spec tires would hugely increase the amount of time I spend truing tires at the race and take away from time spent on setup or even practice. The first year I went to the IIC I bought my tires for 1/12th at the hobby shop and ended up missing most of the first day of practice waiting for the shop to open then having to true the tires and set the car up to that tire height. Fortunately in the years that followed I was able to get good tire advice before going to the race and showed up race day with pre-trued tires that worked pretty well. Now if we could bring spec tires to the race that would be different...for WGT too. Then my concern would be to choose tires that work well for everyone. The tire width ratio from front to rear is different in 1/12th from 1/10th so the same compound tire front and rear isn't likely to be a good choice like it is in WGT. In WGT the front tire is slightly more than half the width of the rear tire. In 1/12th the front tire is closer to 2/3rds to 3/4ths the width of the rear tire.
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Old 10-25-2013, 11:28 AM   #7
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+1

Would love spec tire ..

1. Less money overall.
2. Less tires I haul around.
3. Less chasing compounds.

I'll tune the car to the tires, just like WGT.
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Old 10-25-2013, 11:31 AM   #8
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Not here to bash but I never was a fan of spec tire for 1/12th. I feel you don't really need to.Choosing tires is really not a rocket science. I run 13.5 Blinky 1/12th and the compound's I use is either pink or magenta that simple.

But if your going to try it out I would suggest as a test try it out in the 17.5 blinky 1/12th class. The reason why is that class can be used to bring in up in coming drivers and it wont be so expensive for them. And then.... ( Move all the experienced and Top stock pro drivers to either 13.5 or Mod)

It may work if you do that.hope this helps.
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Old 10-25-2013, 11:59 AM   #9
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Dumper brought this up at the Meet n' Greet in Vegas

For 12th stock if it brought more players to the game, wouldn't be such a bad thing I guess, though the class is deep as it is at the BIGS

Issues with BSR/CRC wheel off-set could put a damper on things though, as they have an unusually small off-set which limits track width tuning on some cars

For the record
I mostly run the same ULTI X-compounds week in, week out at our club track, and the same tires at iic this year, that's all I brought, and they worked very well indeed
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Old 10-25-2013, 12:12 PM   #10
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I think this could work, I often run the same tire combos at club races and big races anyway.
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Old 10-25-2013, 12:17 PM   #11
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For someone that has never used ULTI, is there a chart that other tire makers compounds can be cross referenced to get the same compound from UTLI? I like the 3 pack option saves a few dollars.

Thanks,

Kevin
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Old 10-25-2013, 12:27 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al dente View Post
...what im looking for, is your opinions, on rather your decision to run stock at a big race would be swayed one way or another by an announcement that there was going to be a spec tire at a big race.
Good question. I would say, "no," my decision would not be swayed. I could live with it either way.

On a side note, I've successfully tech'd through three Nationals with CRC tires/rims mounted on a 12R5, 12R5.1, and 12R5.2. The CRC rear offsets are different from Jaco, but the CRC's center out dead-on at 172mm. They're not overwidth. Granted, that means rear track width tuning is effectively taken away, and some racers consider that an essential tuning parameter. But, I know the Associated will at least pass tech with CRC wheels. I can't speak for whether that's the case with SpeedMerchant, OnPoint, etc.
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Old 10-25-2013, 01:06 PM   #13
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I also say no... 12th is one of the only classes left where you can tune your car with tire compounds. I also run stock 12th at every big event I go to and I love the class. But if this rule was specific to stock/17.5 only, I would move on to 13.5.

There are way too many issues to consider IMO. Wheel offset vs chassis pod size/width being the main one... But forcing someone to use a wheel of differing flex/rim size than they typically do, forcing someone to use compounds that they typically do not run... All of these issues then pushes those who wish to be at the top of their game on the spec tires to run/test these tires at club races.

After watching the fast guys at Birds, Nats, Vegas this year... I am confident that you can make the A and have a top 3 car on Black or Chrome fronts and Yellow or Greylow rears. This is pretty much a given to work at any big race. Yes, all of the fast guys want to have the latest and greatest compounds... We want to have Mag/Pink for early in the week when bite isn't high, want to have the new Green/Blues in case they end up being the ticket, etc. But you could, quite literally, show up to any big race with the above listed synthetics and have exactly what you need to put your car in the show. In fact, just pick a combo... say Chrome/Greylow and stick with that. Most of the fast guys that I know have one favorite combo that they run at every big race. Sure they bring a couple other tires with them, but most always revert back to what they know and love.


12th scale is doing well... Stock/17.5 12th especially. If we start getting down to less than 2-3 heats at big races or something, perhaps I would think differently. But we had more entries in Stock and Superstock 12th this year in Vegas than we did last year. There is no reason to try and fix something that isn't broken. IMO.

Edit: Another example to the above paragraph regarding choosing one tire combo and sticking with it... Craig Xavier showed up to Vegas to run Stock 12th for Speed Merchant. Since Mike Dumas could not make the race and Craig's current tire of choice did not fit on the SpeedMerchant(again... issues with offset), he ran the tires set aside for Dumas' 13.5 car... Lilac/Orange. Not the most conventional choice for 17.5, but it worked and Craig was fast all week long. You do not need to bring 15 sets of every possible compound to a race. Pick something that your car is proven to work well on and go from there. But not all 12th scales work best on the same tires....

Last edited by JamesL_71; 10-25-2013 at 01:23 PM.
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Old 10-25-2013, 01:11 PM   #14
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IMHO (and no offense to anyone) , but if a spec tire caused more of the pro level stock drivers to move up a level, it may very well help drive more interest in stock 1/12 in general.

A constant discussion I hear at big races is how many stock class ringers there are that forever stay in that class, and how it ultimately hurts the class from being the breeding ground of new drivers and up and coming drivers.
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Old 10-25-2013, 01:17 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clegg View Post
IMHO (and no offense to anyone) , but if a spec tire caused more of the pro level stock drivers to move up a level, it may very well help drive more interest in stock 1/12 in general.

A constant discussion I hear at big races is how many stock class ringers there are that forever stay in that class, and how it ultimately hurts the class from being the breeding ground of new drivers and up and coming drivers.
I really dislike this argument... We are talking about big races here, not whether or not guys should be running in whatever class at a given club race where you are actually trying to draw in newbies.

It is a given that you will have the best racers of your given discipline competing in each class at the best/biggest races.

If the argument is that Stock 12th has too many ringers/fast guys, then I would invite you to look at the Stock/17.5 Sedan entry list. If we need a class for newbies so they can feel good about themselves and don't have to be in the D or E mains, well I guess you could create an "Amateur 12th" class (tongue-in-cheek). But don't penalize the people who enjoy running 17.5 12th against the best Stock pan-car racers in the country.
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