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Old 06-28-2005, 05:39 PM   #1
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Default Coming back to Touring Cars after long hiatus...help me out!!!

I used to race Touring Car about 3 years ago on an indoor local track. I had a FT TC3, Airtronics M8, Reedy/SMC/Trinity 2400 matched packs, LRP 7.1 ESC, and Reedy MVP stock motors...motor lathe, Novak chargers,, the whole deal. I ran expert class with sponsored drivers, but I just lost interest when I got into a serious relationship. Well, now we're married so I'm ready to get back into it. Can you guys please suggest stuff for stock racing? I was pro-level stuff pretty much, just this time I will only have one touring car so the radio doesn't have to store 10 vehicles.
  • Car Kit - Actually I ordered a TC4 kit, so that's the only thing I have as of yet
  • Radio - I had the M8, but I don't need something that nice...anything that has lots of settings but is cheap?
  • Steering Servo - I had some Airtronics Hi-Speed/Hi-Torque servo that was nice...any suggestions?
  • ESC - I am partial to LRP, what's the best for stock racing? Is the 7.1 still good?
  • Motor - I used to run the Reedy MVP, is that still good?
  • Batteries - Ugh, this is where I'm really confused. I used to swear by my batts for my wins but now there's GP batteries, 3300's, 3700's, etc so I don't know what's good now. What is the BEST battery for stock racing? Here I don't mind paying a bit extra for a good pack...who is the best matcher now?
  • Charger - I need a decent enough charger. I had a couple of Novak chargers that needed a power supply to run. I want an all inclusive AC/DC charger.
  • Anything else - Am I forgetting anything? (dischargers, etc.)

So I'm looking for the bare minimum pro-level set up for basic club racing. Thanks a ton!!!
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Old 06-28-2005, 07:02 PM   #2
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Welcome back to the hobby!

So you have a car now, good. The TC4 is a great place to start.
Airtronic still makes the M8 but the M11 is just around the corner.. Airtronics makes lower price point radio's that are still FM but has many of the same features as the M8. I would say go with one of those.

LRP makes the quantum competition 2 ESC. That's their top of the line ESC.

Batts, for stock racing 3300's is still fine. Go with 37's if you race mod or feel you want a little extra run time.

Motors - Trinity monster is great, Roar stock is good, epic stock are all good motors.

Charger - LRP pulsar sport and LRP pulsar pro are a good way to get going again.

Discharger - Any 30amp charger is fine. People are digging the new Integy 030 discharger.

Hope this helps.
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Old 06-28-2005, 07:37 PM   #3
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there aren't many chargers that have AC/DC ...most are just DC but you can pick upa decent PSU for $50ish (i think theres one called pyramid or something that everyone seems to rave about)

i got a 20 amp PSU for 35 (in the UK, not imported) so i'm sure you can find a cheap one.

for chargers, if you went for something like teh pulsar 2, it has a 20 amp discharger (iirc) so an extra discharger wouldn't be required but an equaliser certainly would...they can be picked up for roughly $30 for an integy one or something.

for batteries, www.promatchracing.com were doing a 3 pack offer for about $100 i think, not sure if its still going on but you might aswell check them out....i also recomend you check out team br00d's cells, i'm running their 3700s are their bloody amazing
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Old 06-28-2005, 10:02 PM   #4
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You are starting off fine.
There are lots of good cars on the market now, the TC4 is one of them. With shaft, you will get torque steer, but if you are just racing stock, you'll probably not really feel it. Parts price and availability is good.

The M8 is still good, with the new introduction of the M11, prices for new and used M8s are dropping fast. Nice thing is that with the M8, it is very common, so going Spektrum, synthesized, etc. is easy is an option too.

Servos have a lot to do with personal taste. I'd stay away from digital, but that's just a personal opinion shared by many. Digital tends to cost more and can be subject to glitching easier. For Onroad you will need something fast, torque usually isn't as important, although expensive, fast servos, usually are torque too. I don't like the feel of a servo saver, so for insurance, I pay a little more for a stronger one. If you run a spool a lot, a better servo is a good investment.

I have had problems with LRPs, but I'm sure that can be said for any brand. Novak GTX is good too. Both have small footprint and have different profiles for racing and customer service isn't as bad as some others.

MVP is terrible. There are a few rare that claim they can tune them, but unless you really know some inside stuff on this motor, stay away. There is better stock motors. I prefer the Trinity Monster Stock pro. Gear final ratio at around 7.0-7.1 for rubber on med tracks. Go 767 brushes, Purple +, red or green - for springs. Some like Epic Binary or PK2K, but I just stick with monster pro and gear accordingly.

Gp3300 and 3700s are the best, although 3700s aren't legal for ROAR yet (they will be soon). IB3600 and 3800s are getting very good too and catching up. Many used these latter cells at this year's Reedy Race. They have slightly different characteristics too, uncluding not liking deadshorting (most guys do this in high level stock). Unless you are very comfortable with these other batteries, go with the most proven; GP3300, or 3700s. 3700s do have better voltage and lower IR. Let others test out the other batteries through time and money. Also, go with one kind of battery and stick with it. GP3300s and 3700s are different size, affect the gearing on a motor different, weigh different, and are handled diffferent.

Chargers. Since you are racing stock, you may want a really good charger. Top stock guys like the ability (you may not use it) to charge up as high as 7 or 8amps. You'll lose run time, but gain punch which is okay for stock, but it also depends on pocketbook and how much and need you have for that extra punch. Also, you'll need a discharger (best and cheaper to have discharge and charger in one unit) so that you can monitor your battery's peformance. Most cells are matched at 30-35a discharge. Once you use the pack once, the labels will be off. Adjust lower 10-20a for routine maintenance (easier on batteries), and higher to check performance. I have a Futaba 5000, but it is very expensive, but it measures each cell individually (I don't think it is DC though, and it needs a power supply). I also like to charge with thermal shut off instead of Delta Peak; Futaba 5000 has that option with thermal tray.

You will also need a discharge tray (for equalizing your cells). Some go down to a predetermined cut off voltage, others are adjustable, some offer deadshort, others need to be manually shutoff when lights go out. More features usually mean more $.

You'll also need a good comm lathe. Racing means having your stuff run at its best and most effcient. I have the HUDY lathe with diamond bit. It's already paid itself off and still going strong.

For asphalt I'd use a Protoform Stratus 3.0ap, Mazda 6, or Losi Alpha body. There are others, but they have specific characteristics and should be experimented with as a second option (ie, Yokomo Stratus Type E, Ride Accord, etc.). Carpet= Parma, Alpha.

Finally, get a good soldering station. Cells don't like heat. The key is to solder fast and solid and never cold solder (using the existing solder). Crank that baby up and solder and get out fast. Quick bond is key, no extended heat whcih is common with underpowered, cheap irons.

A good tweak station. HUDY, Integy, etc. have good ones.

You mentioned pro pit tools, etc., that's why I am making these suggestions. Good luck.
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Old 06-28-2005, 10:12 PM   #5
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WELCOME BACK!

stock motor: monster
esc: novak gtx, lrp competition 2 (known to blow up somtimes)
servos: ko propo 2343 is a great servo plenty of tourque
radio: m8 is fine, m11 might be the newest thing, but i hear bad things already from some owners
batteries: 3300's are fine for stock pro-match is a good matcher
charger : duratrax ice (it's getting real popular over here at the races i go to), it's very cheap and you get more than what you paid for
misc. :comme lathe is also good on the track
tires: rp, team sorex, take off's ( i belive take off's make rp tires)
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Old 06-28-2005, 10:50 PM   #6
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I've got the same setup your looking for; enough to compete at a high level, but not too fancy and unnecessary.

JR XS3 radio-plenty of adjustements. best feeling for my hands. all the necessary adjustments. very cheap in compairson to helios, 3pk, m8/11, r1

LRP Quantum esc-light weight, small footprint, enough adjustments, high quality product

Airtronics 94737-I think that's the right number Fast enough for 19/mod racing, centers fine, no glitching

IB 3600 cells, very punchy, closer tolerances than gp cells. lots of runtime.

LRP Pulsar charger-works fine, very adjustable, powers comm lathes

Novak N-power supply-small and reliable. I haven't seen the pyramid PSU yet, but if it works good, then get it b/c it is cheapier

integy reactor 30 discharger

Yokomo SD LCG-not run it yet, but this is where most of my rc money went

for SD cars, get aluminium input shafts and run 64p gears

If you don't have unlimited funds, then spend your money on a good car and reliable electronics. Save the rest of your money for tires. A 1.18 cell will be hundreths of a second faster per lap over 1.17's, but new tires will be tenths over old tires. I don't see a need for the best charger, esc, servo, and radio...all I use is the exponental adjustments to get settings that are between the esc profiles and end point to get equal steering. If your servo can do 60* in .05 sec, do you think your tires can grip in that time? These are just my .02 dollars. I know alot of guys on here have the top stuff and would probably disagree with me.

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Old 06-28-2005, 11:18 PM   #7
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I agree with all he has suggested other than Servos, IB3600 and Yokomo SD and here's why.

Fast in a servo is relative, to me a servo needs to be relatively fast, not to keep up with the tire's traction as your input lag time. Slow servos feel like your car will have a delay and not as precise. You mentioned pro level, not casual/fun level. I don't like the feel of having the servo lag and miss my inputs. If I make a mistake, I want it to be driver input, not mechanical. I don't use a servo saver (not always) because some of the feel is lost which to me feels sort of like a slow servo. Also, faster servos tend to be stronger which is good for wear/tear.

Yokomo LCG. Great car, but expensive, very touchy, and exotic. I have a SD and it is a good car. I wouldn't recommend it to you if you are concerned with parts availibility or costs. Like the TC4, it is shaft driven which has its pros and cons. Unless you have huge reasons why you prefer the Yok over the TC4, I'd go with the more common. I personally think my XRay T1FK05 or Corally RDX is better than both, but I wouldn't recommend the either.

IB3600, also looks to be good, but unless you are in an area with lots of other racers using them, you'll be experimenting on your own. They are relatively new and uncommon. GPs are a staple. If you can answer these questions, then consider the IB3600s:
Why do Ib3600s dislike deadshorting and GPs okay? What amps do you charge them for stock, 19t or mod? Store with charge, half charge, or trayed (and at what level)? Thermal peak detection or Delta Peak? Gearing in stock vs. GPs?
If you can't answer these questions, remember if no one else is running them at a race, you won't be able to lean on anyone for answers either.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 06-28-2005, 11:29 PM   #8
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Oh, also, if you do decide to go Yokomo SD, his advice for aluminum inputs is sound. I blew out a few cups before getting the Team Suzuki milled aluminum ones (BTW, very pricey if you can even find them). Also, be careful if you decide to go with carbon shaft. Less rotating mass is better for stock, but I've broken 2 different kind already. Lastly, space is a premium on these models, so pick your electronics wisely. I use Quantum 2, with clip on noise surpressor on neg wire, large inline schottsky diode, a 5v fan, and small receiver. I also like to clip on a motor peltier before run, especially in summer, so space is really tight.
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Old 06-29-2005, 10:58 AM   #9
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Thanks for all the advice.

I've got a TC4 kit on the way ($164 shipped from Ebay, w00t!).

Promatch has some great batteries...I had a set of 2400's that were every bit as good as my Reedy Zappers 2400's were. So I'll probably be ordering that 3 packs for $100 of GP3300s. Now these 3300s, are they NiMH or NiCd? I forgot how to treat the two different types to maximize the power.

Airtronics has the MX-3s radio that does the sythesized channels, so it's either between that or the JR XS3 someone mentioned.

I've never run a servo saver, I'm looking for a precise servo.

The Duratrax Ice charger actually looks like a great bargain!

I might try to save money on the ESC, is there any difference between the LRP 7.1/Quantum/Quantum 2? I'm really only going to be running stock.

Once again, I really appreciate all the responses...it's hard coming back into this after being gone so long. I'm really trying to keep it at the bare minimums, but still have competitive stuff. Thanks!
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Old 06-29-2005, 11:28 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madferrett
Thanks for all the advice.

I've got a TC4 kit on the way ($164 shipped from Ebay, w00t!).

Promatch has some great batteries...I had a set of 2400's that were every bit as good as my Reedy Zappers 2400's were. So I'll probably be ordering that 3 packs for $100 of GP3300s. Now these 3300s, are they NiMH or NiCd? I forgot how to treat the two different types to maximize the power.

Airtronics has the MX-3s radio that does the sythesized channels, so it's either between that or the JR XS3 someone mentioned.

I've never run a servo saver, I'm looking for a precise servo.

The Duratrax Ice charger actually looks like a great bargain!

I might try to save money on the ESC, is there any difference between the LRP 7.1/Quantum/Quantum 2? I'm really only going to be running stock.

Once again, I really appreciate all the responses...it's hard coming back into this after being gone so long. I'm really trying to keep it at the bare minimums, but still have competitive stuff. Thanks!
The TC4 is very nice, since you had the TC3 shoudl be a breeze to work on.
Radio I would say the New Spektrum DX3 is th ebest choise right now...But Ultimate has the M8's for $150.00 so look for deals...
Servos that I would suggest for the TC4 that is the best deal for proformance I say the Futaba S9550 low profile so it will give you room for that big ol ESC you are thinking about...The 9550 is digital and works great for TC not too fast but has enough to keep you competative.
Now speed controls
You can find great deals on Rc techs for sale forums just make sure the person has many posts as they have been here a while..
I would say a used GT7 is a great choice and still a great esc...
go here for a good power supply.
http://www.buyreliant.com/psupplies/psv200.htm
best for the price and the ICE is a great choice for charger...does enough without breaking your bank.
As far as bodies go.....Mazda 6 or Stratus 3AP are the two besy all around bodies to get..
Promathc are great for batts and service..
FOr tires....Sorex 36R and take off 27s are probably the most used tires around...So don't waste money find out from the track you race at most what tires work there...
Comm lathe can come later as you can ask just about every racer to cut yours for like a COKE or something...
Tools.....Nothing beats MIP and just by the sixes you need. I wasted money on a set and I only use two of the drivers. AE makes a great set of nut drivers as I have needed all of those. Setup systems aren't a nessesity but they do come in handy the new one from integy is great and it comes with a carring case.
Dischargers goes the Integy Zero 30 is tops...For older packs and for maintaince later on the Spintec Battery Manager is very nice too but not a nessesity.
Hope this helps,
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