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Old 10-05-2013, 01:35 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by rctrackman View Post
You might want to look a little closer Howard. That SP chassis is layed out SIMILAR to a wgt but not quite the same. Thus my comment. If SP turns out to be your only body choice you might want to stick with the SP LM chassis.
Notice the position of the rear body mounts. Substantially more forward and in than any WGT chassis.
keep in mind they're making this as a combo. Just because the body fits on their chassis DOES NOT mean it'll fit on a WGT chassis.
The GenX might have some hope due to the available positions for the rear post. Nobody else has that as far as i know.
Why do the holes for the body posts need to be in any particular place? Every body I've ever mounted required that I make the holes. This one is no different. If there are holes are already in the body to match the Speed Passion chassis, and they don't match the chassis I'm using, then I'll put a sticker over them.

WGT chassis have no standard body post locations, but that doesn't seem to cause any problems.

I've already checked the wheelbase and width of the SP body, and they look just fine for WGT chassis.
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Old 10-05-2013, 01:43 PM   #167
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I'm sure you're right. I was relating to a particular problem I had trying to mount a HPI 200mm Supra body on my CRC. The body has no "hip" below the roof line so the wide body mounts simply had no where to go. Thank goodness I could mount the posts a little inwards on the CRC thus providing me the ability to drill holes in the outermost roof area.
BTW, wheelbase and width are only part of the equation. Talk to any body maker. They'll tell you that certain concessions are made to absolute scale for certain reasons. Notice the wide "hip" area of any current wgt body.
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Old 10-05-2013, 01:45 PM   #168
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I'm sure you're right. I was relating to a particular problem I had trying to mount a HPI 200mm Supra body on my CRC. The body has no "hip" below the roof line so the wide body mounts simply had no where to go. Thank goodness I could mount the posts a little inwards on the CRC thus providing me the ability to drill holes in the outermost roof area.
That's the same problem I had with mounting the Protoform Sophia on my SpeedMerchant chassis. The posts go through the side windows! Looks like heck.

One possible problem with the SP body is that the rear wheel arches look a bit narrow, so the rear tires can rub on their inside edge. The Protoform Mulsanne has the same problem. Fortunately, one minute with a hacksaw blade and a tire truer is all that's needed to remove the offending area from the tire/wheel. The narrower tire doesn't seem to hurt the handling at all.
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Last edited by howardcano; 10-06-2013 at 06:32 AM.
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Old 10-05-2013, 01:57 PM   #169
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So be careful presuming the SP body will "fit" simply because it's wide enough and the wheelbase is within the adjustable range of most wgt chassis. The actual shape of the body could make it difficult to mount.
In deference to maintaining a high degree of scale, you simply wouldn't want to go drilling through a visually critical part of the body just to use a wgt chassis.
Simply have to wait and see though. No sense wondering until the bodies are actually available.
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Old 10-05-2013, 02:07 PM   #170
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Just because the body fits on their chassis DOES NOT mean it'll fit on a WGT chassis.
As others have said, just because the chassis it is designed for has body mounts in one location doesn't mean you have to move your body posts to the same place. Two minutes with a body reamer fixes that.

The LM-F chassis is 200mm wide with a 270mm wheelbase. Width matches WGT chassis, but the wheelbase is out. As long as the body doesn't have the wheel arches pre-cut (which one does?) you can just cut them to match, or it wouldn't difficult to make an extension plate to move the front suspension blocks forwards to get the wheelbase to match the body.




Regarding small tyres, truing them down to nothing so they only last a handful of runs is all to do with chassis handling, and something that's only come about recently, since we moved to lipo and brushless. Truing them down means the handling is more stable with less chance of the tyres grabbing and grip rolling when grip has built up. I know a lot of our national level 1/12th racers will run full size foams at club meets, and when they get small keep them for nationals where the grip is so much greater. These cars are bigger, heavier and slower, the only reason to run tyres that small for anywhere but big events is because everyone else does it.

We used to run RC10L3s years ago on a low grip carpet, when the tyres got down to around 4mm thick we would bin them as they stopped giving enough grip.
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Old 10-05-2013, 02:49 PM   #171
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Sadly, the McAliister Daytona Proto is 190mm. I've never seen one fit a WGT chassis correctly. The Mulsanne is discontinued.
If you're rulling out the RJ Speed body...wait until you see the Colt bodies !!
The Chevron Dauer is the only one that has ANY real quality and even that's questionable.
With the course this class is taking, pray that Ed starts making bodies or Speed Passion finds a market for the LM car.
It almost makes better sense to abandon WGT chassis and concentrate on the Speed Passion since they're the ONLY folks offering a realistic LM body at this time. Tamiya may or may not re-release one or more of theirs.
It's simple folks....either work with what's available, make it yourself, have somebody else make it, or realise the lack of assets and move on.
Believe me D, I've been in the hobby for a long time and I know what's out there in terms of the quality of bodies I'd like to see or that I would try to produce myself. So yes, right now if we held a WGTP race we would all be running cars without bodies. That's why my initial plans for a 1/10 GTP/Group C body was for Tamiya f1 and GTP chassis owners. I didn't see much interest in more true to scale bodies from WGT chassis owners and RC racers in general. I still feel that this is true-most pan car racers are interested in handling and don't really care about realism in scale. It's a catch-22 situation in terms of bodies-the majority of racers are content with what's available so the body companies don't do anything new or better. That's why I started this discussion, to get the ball rolling and see if it gains in popularity. Unfortunately I'm not too optimistic. I mean look: DP and LMP have been around for almost ten years now, and in those ten years I haven't heard any talk of racing these cars in RC. So now that DP's might be gone in a year or two and LMP is changing as well, why would there be a sudden rise of interest in it? All we can do is express our interest to the RC car manufacturers and hope they respond.

In the meantime, if I am ever able to get home on a weekend to be able to race, I will go where ever I'm able to race my 200mm Ferrari F50GT1 body (I have a whole box full of them.....*insert Dr Evil laugh*), either in USGT or WGT. I know it's legal in USGT, but I'd rather play with a pan car. I also can't wait to use my rare, left-handed KO Propo Mars tx.
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Old 10-05-2013, 05:25 PM   #172
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On the McAllister Corvette DP body -

I measure the rear inside the quarter panels @ 200 mm and the front inside the wheel wells at 193mm (for those playing w/ ideas)

(speaking of which - I'm working on some decals for that body - not sure if I'll like the "wrap" style decal or not...but hopefully I'll have some printed up in the next week or two.

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Old 10-05-2013, 05:56 PM   #173
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In deference to maintaining a high degree of scale, you simply wouldn't want to go drilling through a visually critical part of the body just to use a wgt chassis.
Then I would relocate the body posts on the chassis. If there's no room, then I'll add a thin strip of graphite on some standoffs mounted in the old holes in the chassis, and move the posts to where they need to be. This isn't rocket science. I've done it plenty of times already.
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Old 10-05-2013, 06:11 PM   #174
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I think at this point the body discussion is a mute point. Yes...anything CAN be done but the point is NO class should be an exercise in customization. Since the body count (how apropos) is practically nil we can all but say this thread falls into the "Boy it would be cool if this existed" category.
As of now, there are NO bodies that fit the requirements of this proposed class.
If concessions to scale were part of the plan then you'd at least have the possibility of a start. Hell, I think VTA started with 2 bodies available from HPI.
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Old 10-05-2013, 06:13 PM   #175
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The LM-F chassis is 200mm wide with a 270mm wheelbase. Width matches WGT chassis, but the wheelbase is out. As long as the body doesn't have the wheel arches pre-cut (which one does?) you can just cut them to match, or it wouldn't difficult to make an extension plate to move the front suspension blocks forwards to get the wheelbase to match the body.
You mean like this?:

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Old 10-05-2013, 07:12 PM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rctrackman View Post
I think at this point the body discussion is a mute point. Yes...anything CAN be done but the point is NO class should be an exercise in customization. Since the body count (how apropos) is practically nil we can all but say this thread falls into the "Boy it would be cool if this existed" category.
As of now, there are NO bodies that fit the requirements of this proposed class.
If concessions to scale were part of the plan then you'd at least have the possibility of a start. Hell, I think VTA started with 2 bodies available from HPI.
That's what I'm talking about: there currently are no bodies that fit the bill for this class, at least the way I see it. Until someone does make some nice 200mm GTP, Group C, WSC or LMP bodies then your choices for where to race your WGT chassis is either in WGT or convert it to 235 and run with the Pro-10 guys. This scale/realism vs non-scale/performance has been going on for a long time. The most recent I believe was during the inception of WGT-take a look at this older thread and reply#14:

http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...te-thread.html

In regards to WGT we all know who won out, just look at the approved body list or go see a race. What drives me crazy is that a body like the PF Gianna can be legal for the class-a fictional car that does not exist in real life, but a 200mm Ferrari 430 by Tamiya is not!

So I think we've reached a dead end for now, at least the way I envision WGTP being about. If you guys aren't as interested in scale as much as I am, and are cool with allowing the bodies that are currently out there then that's fine. At least it's better than WGT, LOL! I will therefore tender my resignation as "decider" and let you guys run with it.
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Old 10-05-2013, 07:21 PM   #177
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As I said before...WGT had strong manufacturer support from the start so it came to be fairly easily. We are going to need to get some manufacturers on board with the idea if it is going to come about.
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Old 10-05-2013, 09:12 PM   #178
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As I said before...WGT had strong manufacturer support from the start so it came to be fairly easily. We are going to need to get some manufacturers on board with the idea if it is going to come about.
I see it differently. There were plenty of 200mm GT bodies on the market at the time- realistic and scale looking GT bodies. Then Protoform and Parma got in the game. Except that they didn't side with the scale enthusiasts, rather they sided with the racers and went for the proverbial jugular by opting for aerodynamic performance at the expense of scale realism. That's because if your body is the fastest and dominates, then you will have a lock on the market and sell plenty of bodies. Then when the rules makers rubber stamped their products the die was cast-scale realism was dead. Now you have a WGT where your body choices are between the Parma and the two Protoform offerings. And with the way the Gianna and Sophia are dominating I think it would be safe to say that Parma isn't planning on producing any more DB9's-that mold is sitting on a shelf somewhere in the annals of Parma.
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Old 10-05-2013, 09:21 PM   #179
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Sure there were some bodies out there already but the only chassis available were SS pan cars which were not yet setup for 1 cell. I've talked to 1 or 2 manufactures about the early days of WGT and their rolls in getting the class going. WGT started with the semi scale 200mm TC bodies but didn't really take off until there were WGT specific chassis. That's when it became big enough for the major races to take note and include them in the program.

At either rate the bodies that are currently available for 200mm pan cars do not have sufficient scale looks or detail to attract the scale enthusiasts.

Don't get me wrong...I don't mean to put a damper on things...I really like the idea of this class and hope it can come about.
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Old 10-05-2013, 10:11 PM   #180
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Sure there were some bodies out there already but the only chassis available were SS pan cars which were not yet setup for 1 cell. I've talked to 1 or 2 manufactures about the early days of WGT and their rolls in getting the class going. WGT started with the semi scale 200mm TC bodies but didn't really take off until there were WGT specific chassis. That's when it became big enough for the major races to take note and include them in the program.

At either rate the bodies that are currently available for 200mm pan cars do not have sufficient scale looks or detail to attract the scale enthusiasts.

Don't get me wrong...I don't mean to put a damper on things...I really like the idea of this class and hope it can come about.
You've missed my point completely. In fact you have it completely backwards: the WGT class was created to take advantage of the great number of scale 1/10 200mm GT bodies that had been around since the late nineties. I didn't have to talk to anyone about this because I lived it. I raced many of these bodies on the original HPI nitro RS4 during the late nineties. We use to also race GT bodies on our Serpent Impulses (the first race quality 200mm TC style chassis) back in the early 2000's at my old track in Miami including that F50GT1. HPI had their McLaren, Acura NSX, 1996 Porsche GT1, Toyota Supra and Mercedes CLK just to name a few. So there were plenty of scale GT bodies around at the time. PF and Parma could have made more realistic looking bodies but they chose not to-and the rule makers were ok with it. Scale realism was just not important to the right people. And I can think of at least two GT 200mm bodies of the top of my head that are available now and are beautifully scale but not legal because they are mid-engined cars, specifically Ferrari's: one is by Tamiya, an F430 (they make a 190mm and a 200mm "wide" version). How much more scale can you get than something from Tamiya? You also have the F50GT1 I mentioned earlier.
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