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Old 10-04-2013, 07:22 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by Ed Delgado View Post
Thanks to Dino in another post above for your comments.
Scott, I would say this in regards to your five points:

1. Separate, keep WGTP at 200 and the 235mm a class of its own.
2. I say go with 1s, same as used in 1/12 and 1/10 WGT.
3. I'd go with open foams-keep the tech situation simple.
4. Yes, let's do that. We can post pictures of the bodies and we'll discuss their merits and why or why not they should be legal.
5. Not sure, never raced a new style Lipo/brushless SC, but I do know they run blinky in 1/12 and WGT, as well as some others. So I'm leaning towards blinky.

Those are my thoughts on those points-I will not hand out any edicts until my "decider" status is made official....LOL
This is as official as it will probably get: ED IS THE WGTP BOSS!

I have updated my post of suggested rules to reflect the information above:

http://www.rctech.net/forum/12571732-post65.html
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Old 10-04-2013, 07:27 PM   #152
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In regards to WGTP, I believe in it and want to see it take off, but.......you can hire the band, hire the caterer, but if no one shows up, it's not much of a party!
But at least you'll have all the booze for yourself.
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Old 10-04-2013, 08:25 PM   #153
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Ed,
As far as "GTP bodies" definition, what are the parameters you have in mind? Is it only cars that ran in the IMSA GTP class? How about Group C cars? Can Am cars? ALMS and FIA prototypes? I know that scale realism is a prime concern.

I have a Tamiya Toyota TS020, a Tamiya Courage (much like the Highcroft Acura and the LMPC cars), a Protoform version of the Porsche GT1, and a Panoz Esperante GTR. We've talked about the RJ Speed 962 in 200mm. Just wantee an opinion on whether these were acceptable bodies for the class in your definition? (I guess this is the start of a body list).

I was looking at the car pics on the Spec175 site. One of the things that I think detracts from foam tire classes is the use of tires that are only a couple of mm larger in diameter than the rim. Ideas? Opinions?
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Old 10-05-2013, 07:06 AM   #154
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Ed,
As far as "GTP bodies" definition, what are the parameters you have in mind? Is it only cars that ran in the IMSA GTP class? How about Group C cars? Can Am cars? ALMS and FIA prototypes? I know that scale realism is a prime concern.

I have a Tamiya Toyota TS020, a Tamiya Courage (much like the Highcroft Acura and the LMPC cars), a Protoform version of the Porsche GT1, and a Panoz Esperante GTR. We've talked about the RJ Speed 962 in 200mm. Just wantee an opinion on whether these were acceptable bodies for the class in your definition? (I guess this is the start of a body list).

I was looking at the car pics on the Spec175 site. One of the things that I think detracts from foam tire classes is the use of tires that are only a couple of mm larger in diameter than the rim. Ideas? Opinions?
The Protoform Mulsanne is also in question. It's not named after any specific car, but might be based on one. It certainly looks the part. (I own both the Mulsanne and the RJ Speed 962.)

I have suggested 2.25" as a minimum tire diameter.
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Old 10-05-2013, 07:57 AM   #155
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The Protoform Mulsanne is also in question. It's not named after any specific car, but might be based on one. It certainly looks the part.
The Protoform Mulsanne is their old Porsche GT1 body, rebadged as the Mulsanne with new headlight stickers means they don't have to deal with Porsche licensing, especially considering when they first released it they had to split up the Porsche name on the sticker sheet to avoid copyright issues back then.
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Old 10-05-2013, 08:54 AM   #156
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Ed,
As far as "GTP bodies" definition, what are the parameters you have in mind? Is it only cars that ran in the IMSA GTP class? How about Group C cars? Can Am cars? ALMS and FIA prototypes? I know that scale realism is a prime concern.

I have a Tamiya Toyota TS020, a Tamiya Courage (much like the Highcroft Acura and the LMPC cars), a Protoform version of the Porsche GT1, and a Panoz Esperante GTR. We've talked about the RJ Speed 962 in 200mm. Just wantee an opinion on whether these were acceptable bodies for the class in your definition? (I guess this is the start of a body list).

I was looking at the car pics on the Spec175 site. One of the things that I think detracts from foam tire classes is the use of tires that are only a couple of mm larger in diameter than the rim. Ideas? Opinions?
Originally I named this class RCHSR to mimic the full size Historic Sportscar Racing series. This was so that GTP, Group C, World Sportscars, LeMans Prototypes, Daytona Prototypes and even GT1 cars could compete together. Basically as long as it's not an F1, Touring Car, WGT or USGT you'd be ok.

All the bodies you've listed are ok with me except for the RJSpeed 962. Not to pick on any particular body maker, but that 962 to me is the proverbial poster child for what a WGTP legal body should not be: poor scale accuracy and the wedge type rear end. I can accept a wedge rear end if the rest of the car is accurately modeled so on some bodies it's a judgement call.

As far as tires go, I too think those really low profile foam tires look terrible. The problem is that foam tires are very expensive and I hate to have to tell anyone that they can't get as much use out of their tires as they want. I've seen some WGT front tires that look like a bare wheel with a section of bicycle tire inner-tube stretched over it! And since some wheels might have a different diameter, maybe we can say instead that you need at least 2mm of front tire thickness and 3mm for the rears.

In regards to the PF Mulsanne, most of us know why they can't call it a Porsche 911GT1-98-licensing fees. So I have no problems with a body like that so long as it represents an original model accurately.
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Old 10-05-2013, 09:45 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by Ed Delgado View Post
Originally I named this class RCHSR to mimic the full size Historic Sportscar Racing series. This was so that GTP, Group C, World Sportscars, LeMans Prototypes, Daytona Prototypes and even GT1 cars could compete together. Basically as long as it's not an F1, Touring Car, WGT or USGT you'd be ok.

All the bodies you've listed are ok with me except for the RJSpeed 962. Not to pick on any particular body maker, but that 962 to me is the proverbial poster child for what a WGTP legal body should not be: poor scale accuracy and the wedge type rear end. I can accept a wedge rear end if the rest of the car is accurately modeled so on some bodies it's a judgement call.

As far as tires go, I too think those really low profile foam tires look terrible. The problem is that foam tires are very expensive and I hate to have to tell anyone that they can't get as much use out of their tires as they want. I've seen some WGT front tires that look like a bare wheel with a section of bicycle tire inner-tube stretched over it! And since some wheels might have a different diameter, maybe we can say instead that you need at least 2mm of front tire thickness and 3mm for the rears.

In regards to the PF Mulsanne, most of us know why they can't call it a Porsche 911GT1-98-licensing fees. So I have no problems with a body like that so long as it represents an original model accurately.
The decisions begin!

Protoform Mulsanne YES, RJ Speed 962 NO.

Ed, if someone wants to maximize acceleration by eliminating rotating mass, then they will cut the tire diameter to whatever is the minimum specified in the rules. If we have a large minimum diameter, then at least the tires will still be useable in other classes like WGT, BRL oval, etc., after they are worn past the minimum for WGTP. As a cheapskate, I already do that with my tires.
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Old 10-05-2013, 10:52 AM   #158
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Howard, how about banning tire truers from all pit areas? LOL

No, I'm just kidding of course. I'm against going too small with a minimum tire thickness, but I understand your thinking on this. These really low cut tires like what we see at carpet tracks look really unrealistic. Let's see what everyone else thinks. I know Bullfrog (an ex-ROAR Regional Director) is against this idea, and I understand his reasoning as well. There has to be a happy medium between performance, realism and workable economics for the WGTP racer.
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Old 10-05-2013, 10:58 AM   #159
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Default Allard GTP

Bet none of you guys have seen this before, the Allard GTP:
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Old 10-05-2013, 12:18 PM   #160
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One idea that I had been kicking around for a neighborhood basher (and I am NOT suggesting this as a viable option for this class) is to use the HPI F1 car's front and rear axles on a car as they both have TC-sized hexes. I have an F10 and haven't put TC/USGT/VTA tires on it to see how wide it would be. On the VF1 thread, we'd kicked the ball around on how to have scale treaded tires for those bodies. Using FGX or F10 hexes was the only viable idea I'd had. With the 1s spec, I still wish that we could use rubber tires, not foam. It would remove much of the minimum diameter issue. Unfortunately, we never came up with a good way to convert pan car hubs to 12mm hexes without the expense of a machine shop.
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Old 10-05-2013, 01:01 PM   #161
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Sadly, the McAliister Daytona Proto is 190mm. I've never seen one fit a WGT chassis correctly. The Mulsanne is discontinued.
If you're rulling out the RJ Speed body...wait until you see the Colt bodies !!
The Chevron Dauer is the only one that has ANY real quality and even that's questionable.
With the course this class is taking, pray that Ed starts making bodies or Speed Passion finds a market for the LM car.
It almost makes better sense to abandon WGT chassis and concentrate on the Speed Passion since they're the ONLY folks offering a realistic LM body at this time. Tamiya may or may not re-release one or more of theirs.
It's simple folks....either work with what's available, make it yourself, have somebody else make it, or realise the lack of assets and move on.
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Old 10-05-2013, 01:06 PM   #162
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One idea that I had been kicking around for a neighborhood basher (and I am NOT suggesting this as a viable option for this class) is to use the HPI F1 car's front and rear axles on a car as they both have TC-sized hexes. I have an F10 and haven't put TC/USGT/VTA tires on it to see how wide it would be. On the VF1 thread, we'd kicked the ball around on how to have scale treaded tires for those bodies. Using FGX or F10 hexes was the only viable idea I'd had. With the 1s spec, I still wish that we could use rubber tires, not foam. It would remove much of the minimum diameter issue. Unfortunately, we never came up with a good way to convert pan car hubs to 12mm hexes without the expense of a machine shop.
It's pretty easy to convert the rear end of the typical pan car to use the 12mm hexes for F1 tires. You'll need a complete rear axle, diff, and hub set from an F1 car. Get a pair of 6x10 flanged bearings to fit the axle. Use a reamer to enlarge the axle height adjusters on the pan car to accept the bearings (the diameter needs to be 0.019" larger, which isn't much.)

The front bearings on the F103 cars are 8mm OD, so the standard 5/16" front pan car bearings will fit reasonably well. Sometimes a single thickness of Scotch tape is necessary to get them snug.

After you do this, you can play around with the various F1 rubber tire compounds on your pan car. Then you'll kick yourself for going through all that effort just to find out that the tires suck compared to foams. At least that was my reaction.
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Old 10-05-2013, 01:07 PM   #163
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Maybe these folks would be interested in making more bodies. A bit pricey but obviously their purpose is in creating very scale products.
http://historicrc.com/index.html
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Old 10-05-2013, 01:13 PM   #164
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It almost makes better sense to abandon WGT chassis and concentrate on the Speed Passion since they're the ONLY folks offering a realistic LM body at this time.
If they offer the body separately (and I can't imagine they won't) then there is no reason to abandon WGT chassis. The dimensions are close enough to work.
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Old 10-05-2013, 01:25 PM   #165
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You might want to look a little closer Howard. That SP chassis is layed out SIMILAR to a wgt but not quite the same. Thus my comment. If SP turns out to be your only body choice you might want to stick with the SP LM chassis.
Notice the position of the rear body mounts. Substantially more forward and in than any WGT chassis.
keep in mind they're making this as a combo. Just because the body fits on their chassis DOES NOT mean it'll fit on a WGT chassis.
The GenX might have some hope due to the available positions for the rear post. Nobody else has that as far as i know.
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