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Old 06-10-2005, 12:38 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by AdrianM
First of all if you can keep the racing casual you can skip half of this. However, if you get one guy that shows up and knows what he's doing and he does the following he will blow your doors off and then its not fun anymore...running foams hardcore is a lot of work.

1. Keep in mind that if you are running foams every time you have a 2% reduction in tire circumference (~1mm) you have to recalculate your roll out and adjust your gear ratio or you will be slower. This is no big deal on carpet due to low wear but on asphalt you can lose 1mm in one run.

2. As you tires get smaller you car will get lower so remember to raise ride height. When you raise ride height you reduce droop so after raising you car reset you droop. Your camber will also be reduced when you raise a car so you have to reset camber too. If you wear away more than .5mm per run you will have to do all of this every run.

3. The tires seemed to be fastest at 58-59mm in diameter. 57mm is still ok. Once you get smaller than 57 you start losing side bite and your lap time will get slower. This means that if you lose 1mm per run the tires are good for 3 runs max.

FYI, Rubber tire never change 2% in diameter from when they are new to when they are worn out. Most good rubber tires now days are good for 4 open mod runs and double that if you run 19T or Stock. After that they are 1-2/10ths off when they were new but still good for practice for another 6-8 runs.
These facts are based on YOUR experience running foams on asphalt, am I correct? I understand that in Florida, asphalt is exponentially more abrasive than it is in other parts of the country due to it's composition, but, oddly enough, TC racing takes place on asphalt in states other than FLORIDA!!! At our severly abrasive (by conventional standards) track, I can get 3 full race days on ONE SET of FOAMS, and I take my racing very seriously, and I am an individual who knows what he's doing. A rubber tire that can stay within a SECOND per lap of the foam guys will be shot after 4 packs, and that's in stock. Changing ride height and droop is not a monumental undertaking, and if you have a rollout chart, which is something everybody should have, the gearing issue becomes moot. I don't need tire warmers, 5 different traction compounds, I don't have to worry about inserts, or wheel stiffness. I bring one set of Purple/Plaid, and one set of Cyan/Magenta. I start at 2.3" and run 'em to 2.18" and after those three full race days, I put 'em away and save 'em for carpet season.

I agree that foams wear more on certain surfaces, and obviously where Adrian races rubbers are better due to the ridiculous surface that they have to deal with, but I think most other places can run foams without issue.
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Old 06-10-2005, 12:43 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by pistolpete
Here is the track in P'cola I run at with foams.http://www.hobbycentralrc.com/
That Track is AWESOME.
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Old 06-10-2005, 03:48 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM
2. As you tires get smaller you car will get lower so remember to raise ride height. When you raise ride height you reduce droop so after raising you car reset you droop. .
Adrian

I never understand this statement when someone says it. I use the "Associated" stlye droop guages and I don't see how droop can change....Enlighten me brother!
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Old 06-10-2005, 03:52 PM   #19
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Dan, when you raise the ride height and leave the droop screws in the same position, there is less uptravel (droop) than there used to be.
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Old 06-10-2005, 04:02 PM   #20
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In New Zealand we only have ever run foams in Modified all throughout the country. We are not allowed to use any additives on our tires at all so we tend to use tires around the 30-37 shore ratings. Grip is great and the cars are faster than rubbers. Running foams is always about 1 second a lap faster than rubbers. Tier wear is good and they are cheap to run. It's easy to set up a car to a reasonable standard but you really have to work at your setup to get that last half to 1 second a lap out of your car. For your information we run on a large outdoor ashfelt track where a very good modifeid race time is 15 laps. The is no traction additive added to the track or our tires. I just like the consistancy of our foams compared to rubber which in a modified car at a high level are pretty much shot at 1-2 runs. also you guys tru your tires down far to much to start with. We can run just as fast at 63mm as 58mm so you get long life out of your tires.
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Old 06-10-2005, 04:10 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackKat
Adrian

I never understand this statement when someone says it. I use the "Associated" stlye droop guages and I don't see how droop can change....Enlighten me brother!
If you measure droop as "mm above ride height" you will see better how this works. This means set your ride height, then lift up on one end of your car until the tires are just about to come off the ground, then measure between the chassis and ground again. The difference between these two numbers is your droop. I would say this method is a must for racing with foams (I use it for rubber also, as it makes more sense to me personally). With rubber, since you're not making changes to ride height all the time, the drop gauges that measure between the bottom of the chassis and bottom of the hub work fine. Just don't try to compare the numbers obtained using the different methods. Hope this made sense!
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Old 06-10-2005, 04:32 PM   #22
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Juan is exactly right. We (Schumacher) always measure droop as mm above ride height. We only use droop guages when buliding the car to get the left and right sides equal. After that we just check ride height, lift the car until it tops out and check the ride height again. The diffrence is your droop figure.
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Old 06-10-2005, 04:38 PM   #23
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Foam tires on a sedan on asphalt is great and its even better when you realize that you can use Nitro TC foams that for some unknown reason are like 1/2 the price of carpet foams. When I race with nitro foams on my sedan I only got a little over 1mm of wear after 6 mod runs. On the same track that Sorex 36's last about 3 runs(2 fast runs) in the heat of summer. You donít have to tru the tires down to 58mm to run fast you can run them to start at 63mm and get about 2 months on them and still have the same lap times....what rubber tire does that? When more people try it and see what advantages the foam tires have over rubbers they will like it. You can get Nitro tires for as little as 8.99 a pair....what rubber tire can you get mounted for that same price and yet even close to the same life?
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Old 06-10-2005, 05:11 PM   #24
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Thanks for the insight guys!

-Dan
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Old 06-10-2005, 06:20 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin K
Foam tires on a sedan on asphalt is great and its even better when you realize that you can use Nitro TC foams that for some unknown reason are like 1/2 the price of carpet foams. When I race with nitro foams on my sedan I only got a little over 1mm of wear after 6 mod runs. On the same track that Sorex 36's last about 3 runs(2 fast runs) in the heat of summer. You donít have to tru the tires down to 58mm to run fast you can run them to start at 63mm and get about 2 months on them and still have the same lap times....what rubber tire does that? When more people try it and see what advantages the foam tires have over rubbers they will like it. You can get Nitro tires for as little as 8.99 a pair....what rubber tire can you get mounted for that same price and yet even close to the same life?
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Old 06-10-2005, 09:23 PM   #26
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I thought we already had our foam vs. rubber debate for the month? Please bring this thread back up in July when it's time again.
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Old 06-10-2005, 09:26 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Espo
Foam is just sooo fast. They last forever. Rubbers are for guys that need protection
Espo on line?? What is this world coming too...........

What up dude?
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