R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-23-2013, 02:36 PM   #301
Team EAM
 
EAMotorsports's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Posts: 9,158
Trader Rating: 79 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to EAMotorsports
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnet Top View Post
EA ,

Can you compare the speed of Roar 17.5 stock tc class to the *limited* FDR and timing of the spec ( speed passion motor + esc ) 13.5 ETS super stock cars ?

Jake D.
Jake,

The top speed was not a ton different than what we run blinky with here but the rip off the corner was a lot more than 17.5 blinky here. They dont use the max timing board in the SP motors over there. If I am not mistaken the min FDR over there was 3.50 at the race I went too. It varies from track to track depending on the size of the track.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rosko View Post
I tried ride tires before on a med to high bite track and i thaught the felt super stable to me. I normally ran sweeps or jacos, and when i tried the ride tire my car pushed more but i was turning same laptimes. Maybe its just me but i kinda like the feel of taller sidewalls
I set my cars up super aggressive and that didnt work well with the Ride handout tires I was trying. After making the changes to the car that Hagberg told me to change for my home track it was much better to drive. Like you I could run the same lap times but felt pushy still. If I went more aggressive it wanted to get tippy and harder to drive.

EA
__________________
Contact Us
Team EAM, Our Facebook
Team EAM | Xray | RCAmerica | Hudy | APEX Raceway and Hobbies | RC Mission | Killer Concepts | AVID | Hobbywing.
EAMotorsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2013, 02:50 PM   #302
Tech Champion
 
RedBullFiXX's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Intergalactic Planetary
Posts: 6,542
Trader Rating: 34 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnet Top View Post
Only way to properly compare is for someone to set up a brushed mod motor of yesteryear and run head to head with a 17.5 ( on a variety of track sizes ) or we will never have the data needed to compare.
Someone at our club tried ( unsuccessfully ) to prove using some video shot years ago of mod ( national event ) and tried to compare it to 13.5 of today. Not even close in my eyes but he was hell bent on making stock slower, so he tried to convince himself it was the same.
Don't forget to strap in some 3000mah round cells too

I would be confident in racing...
25.5 lipo vs: 27t rc
21.5 lipo vs: 19t rc
13.5 boost lipo vs: mod rc (5min)
__________________
--> 12th scale Information Source <--

"Men do not quit playing because they grow old; they grow old because they quit playing."
― Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.
RedBullFiXX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2013, 03:19 PM   #303
Tech Lord
 
syndr0me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 5280 Raceway
Posts: 13,140
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Default

That would be an interesting test. I bet Danny at SMC could suggest a LiPo with similar IR and capacity to the old NiMH. Something crappy I suppose. And EddieO might be able to help us with a motor and gearing.
syndr0me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2013, 04:22 PM   #304
Tech Lord
 
syndr0me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 5280 Raceway
Posts: 13,140
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Default

I can't wait to call mod 1/12 during tonight's club race! LiveRC better be ready.
syndr0me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2013, 05:15 PM   #305
Tech Champion
 
robk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Macho Business Donkey Wrestler
Posts: 7,586
Trader Rating: 22 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
That would be an interesting test. I bet Danny at SMC could suggest a LiPo with similar IR and capacity to the old NiMH. Something crappy I suppose. And EddieO might be able to help us with a motor and gearing.
Just run a LiFe pack. I used to rate my packs by how long they held above 7.0v on a turbo 30 in the 3300 days. It usually wasn't much long than a minute (I can't remember exactly).

Now finishing below 7.8v after 6 minutes in 17.5 is surprising.
__________________
A mutually re-enforcing cascade of failure

"Failior [sic] crowns enterprise." Robert Goddard

I-Lap Scoring Systems http://www.rclapcounter.com/
robk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2013, 05:17 PM   #306
Tech Elite
 
Skiddins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Windsor, UK
Posts: 4,760
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EAMotorsports View Post
Jake,

The top speed was not a ton different than what we run blinky with here but the rip off the corner was a lot more than 17.5 blinky here. They dont use the max timing board in the SP motors over there. If I am not mistaken the min FDR over there was 3.50 at the race I went too. It varies from track to track depending on the size of the track.



I set my cars up super aggressive and that didnt work well with the Ride handout tires I was trying. After making the changes to the car that Hagberg told me to change for my home track it was much better to drive. Like you I could run the same lap times but felt pushy still. If I went more aggressive it wanted to get tippy and harder to drive.

EA
Can you remember what sort of changes you made to the setup?
__________________
Xray T4'18, T4'14 (Wet Car)
Xray X12 2018
Xray X1'16
wlrc.co.uk (West London Racing Centre)
RCDisco.co.uk
Skiddins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2013, 06:32 AM   #307
Tech Apprentice
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: MA
Posts: 63
Default

http://www.redrc.net/2013/07/on-the-grapevine-trencin/
*gk* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2013, 07:44 AM   #308
Tech Champion
 
MikeXray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: New York
Posts: 5,749
Trader Rating: 73 (100%+)
Default

Hmm, interesting:
Hara:
"Two ideas he has that he believes could be looked at include increasing slightly the scale of the cars and using a larger tyre that offers a more ‘friendly level of grip’."
__________________
Mike L. Awesomatixusa.com | TQWire.com | Islandraceway.com |JacksonRCracing.com | Horsham RC | Sweepracingusa.com
MikeXray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2013, 07:49 AM   #309
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 437
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeXray View Post
Hmm, interesting:
Hara:
"Two ideas he has that he believes could be looked at include increasing slightly the scale of the cars and using a larger tyre that offers a more ‘friendly level of grip’."
Have to say I totally disagree with him on that point!
cyclonetog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2013, 09:03 AM   #310
Tech Lord
 
syndr0me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 5280 Raceway
Posts: 13,140
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Default

Very good article this time from RedRC. I too found this interesting.

Quote:
A big problem Hara sees in particular in Touring Cars, of which he is the 2006 World Champion & 2012 runner up, is the speed of the cars. With Round 6 of the ETS the first big race he has attend but not competed in he said it has helped him to see things from a different perspective.
Hara is right.
syndr0me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2013, 09:26 AM   #311
Tech Elite
 
Rick Hohwart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,935
Default

In my opinion the best way to slow cars down, without changing their basic appearance (TC bodies), is to adopt the FWD platform as the standard TC format.

Cornering speeds will be reduced and two drive wheels will also limit the amount of power that can actually be used.
__________________
www.reedypower.com
Rick Hohwart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2013, 09:39 AM   #312
Tech Regular
 
masterhit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 475
Trader Rating: 15 (100%+)
Default

Maybe something was lost in translation a bit? Heck I can barely comprehend my own native language let alone another!

Might the intent have been "better scale" bodies? I.E. the bigger, higher, bulkier Tamiya style?

Mike Slaughter
masterhit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2013, 09:41 AM   #313
Tech Elite
 
Skiddins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Windsor, UK
Posts: 4,760
Default

Quote:
.... he said in general Touring Cars are now too fast and complicated for beginners and this is why it is always the same drivers who win.
Says the man who is a paid professional who does nothing else, like most of the other top drivers who win

It's also the same drivers who win because they are the best.
Whenever the top drivers drop down to lower classes for events, they still win.

The top level cars are fast, hence blinky etc for those starting out.

Skiddins
__________________
Xray T4'18, T4'14 (Wet Car)
Xray X12 2018
Xray X1'16
wlrc.co.uk (West London Racing Centre)
RCDisco.co.uk
Skiddins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2013, 09:48 AM   #314
Tech Champion
 
RedBullFiXX's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Intergalactic Planetary
Posts: 6,542
Trader Rating: 34 (100%+)
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by masterhit View Post
Maybe something was lost in translation a bit? Heck I can barely comprehend my own native language let alone another!

Might the intent have been "better scale" bodies? I.E. the bigger, higher, bulkier Tamiya style?

Mike Slaughter
More scale looking bodies
FWD
Go on ...
__________________
--> 12th scale Information Source <--

"Men do not quit playing because they grow old; they grow old because they quit playing."
― Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.
RedBullFiXX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2013, 09:52 AM   #315
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Bethlehem, PA
Posts: 2,147
Trader Rating: 49 (100%+)
Default

I'm a novice-intermediate, but have been racing a little over a year. I think like other people, that it'd be beneficial to slow down stock or at least have a competitive novice class (maybe 21.5 stock and 17.5/13.5 super stock). Going to a different platform honestly would deter me. I enjoy running the cars I have, and honestly 17.5 speeed isn't too fast with some practice. but getting people in the door, a slower class is going to help. Then all people would need to switch is a motor and run a faster class when ready. While the front wheel drive may solve the problem, and you're much smarter and have been around WAY longer than I have. Your idea is probably like you said the best, but I don't see it happening. VTA is fairly successful and it get people comfortable with a touring chassis, driving and tuning. I'm not saying this class is the solution in the least, but at our track, its been a way to get people in, keep it relatively cost controlled and enjoying driving and learning their cars. I run with some top level guys and never expect to be as fast as them, I just enjoy racing. Many people get discouraged when they come to the track and run with some of these guys in the same class, and get womped week in and out... eventually to never return. I honestly think most of the higher level guys wouldn't want to step down to 21.5 or slower, because it'd be boring for them. The motors are already there, and everything else transfers over.

Some benefits of VTA that should be considered by a sanctioning body.... to get more racers in the sport and keep them:

-Slower motor, easier for drivers to control and learn their car without becoming too frustrated
-tires that last longer than a weekend or two (thinking mainly on carpet).... keeps cost controlled
-in vta the motors are all very close in function when kept legal (maybe for this purpose of stock....locked motor timing and sealed motor to make something similar, less to fool around with (no timing to think about, no messing with the motors.... beginners don't need this concern). Multiple companies who make them and submit so you can still run their brand. This seems to work at IIC and races where handouts are common.


USGT comes to mind when thinking of a slower class that seems to work.... make it blinky only esc instead of novak and the few others if that was a concern. Whether or not a body rule is like that class to run bodies outside of touring, doesn't make a difference. Scale bodies and things people can relate to also seem to help people come into the hobby. Scale bodies, realistic tires and wheels vs the always used dish... always attract attention. We get more comments at our track from people coming to spectate with VTA bodies/tire/wheels and when someone runs a more modern scale body etc than even the coolest paint jobs in touring.

I want to see more racers come and stay. The amount of guys we have starting in VTA at our shop, seem to hang around, get the hang of it, and move up if ready or when they want to. But they get in and stay because its controllable, fun and not such a big learning curve. Guys who try 17.5 right off the bat, I've noticed far fewer stay in it for more than a month before they get frustrated and sell of their stuff. All the new guys get plenty of help setup wise from the locals and pointers, so there is no difference here between VTA and stock as far as that's concerned.
__________________
SpeedMerchant Rev7
oceanhighz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 10:05 PM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net