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Old 07-22-2013, 02:54 PM   #211
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But you are still not on the podium. Why the people cheat to get in the B main.
This make no sense to me. When you win with a cheat , you will be diqualiyed after the race.
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Old 07-22-2013, 02:54 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by *gk* View Post
It wouldn't work here in the US... you'd need at least 12 classes for ppl to show up...
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Yeah, three TC classes, three 1/12th classes two WGT classes and F1. That's 9 classes. Talk about diluting the sport.
To be honest, here in Holland it is the same. Different types of cars and different motor/esc combo's makes a lot of classes which does make an event or a national based on 2 or 3 classes difficult.
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Old 07-22-2013, 03:00 PM   #213
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But you are still not on the podium. Why the people cheat to get in the B main.
This make no sense to me. When you win with a cheat , you will be diqualiyed after the race.
If the cheat can be found. With a lack on tooling and information there are lots of ways to cheat.
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Old 07-22-2013, 03:27 PM   #214
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He mentioned that some of the drivers in appledorn ran or showed up with a different endbell on the motor. that was an obvious change and the most people go the easy way, like different end bells, mod rotors or different stators.
All this can be figured out after the race or in case of a complain.

Last edited by silden; 07-22-2013 at 03:32 PM. Reason: updated
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Old 07-22-2013, 04:07 PM   #215
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Here I have an original sensorboard:



Tell me what is wrong with it
(some people doing technical inspection could not tell...)

Cheaters are inventive and if technical inspections do not have all experience and tools to find the modifications then cheating is really simple.
FET's or FET-boards are changed within the Cytrix ESC, there is a huge talk about a same looking GM rotor with better performance, internal pulley ratio is fooled with pulleys from other brands, even blanco gears get a different number of teeth stamped on only to fool the FDR calculation. In that last case all gears and pulleys have to be counted to be sure, no technical inspection will do that because the needed time and efford, only in real suspicious cases. And the list of possibillities goes on.....

Not to mention the different motors SP is producing, the latest version seems to run some 1000 rpm more... SP should give new versions new article numbers so they can not be used biside older motors.

Regarding detecting rotors I also have made a tool to test the strength of the magnetic field:

+ YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


Just a 20 euro costing device showing differences in rotors which can be translated to the performance of the motor. The highest readings on this tool were actually the fastest motors. On a scale of 1000 the largest differences between several original rotors was just 3 to 4%

And to be honest, the SP motor is the worst motor in design making huge tolerances from itself and giving lots of room to "make" larger tolerances.
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Old 07-22-2013, 04:11 PM   #216
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If you had 13.5 open esc TC as the top class, 17.5 blinky TC and whatever other support class (or maybe 2 support classes), does anybody think that could work on US style tracks?



I have no idea what would work, I'm honestly asking for opinions.
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Old 07-22-2013, 04:18 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by Roelof View Post
Here I have an original sensorboard:



Tell me what is wrong with it
(some people doing technical inspection could not tell...)
It looks like somebody has been soldering on that thing. Are those the right hall sensors?
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Old 07-22-2013, 04:20 PM   #218
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We have to give the best drivers in the US a platform to challange each other at a monthy basis. To close the gap to europe and Asia. I'm talking about Stock and mod.
How we can get an US driver on the top of the WC podium without a challanging field like the ETS.
We need 1 or 2 stock classes and open TC.
But this will not work without manufacture support, specically the US based ones.
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Old 07-22-2013, 04:21 PM   #219
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Yes the hall sensors are advanced, probably a degree or 5.
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Old 07-22-2013, 04:27 PM   #220
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Yes the sensors are moved, but is this motor really faster?
You have to be move all the sensors the same ammount to get any positve effect.
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Old 07-22-2013, 04:32 PM   #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robk View Post
If you had 13.5 open esc TC as the top class, 17.5 blinky TC and whatever other support class (or maybe 2 support classes), does anybody think that could work on US style tracks?
I personally would be all in on a format like that, with my hands and feet ready to throw money around. I'm sure the 5 mod purists left in the country would complain though.

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Yes the hall sensors are advanced, probably a degree or 5.
And therein lies the issue with spec motor, fixed timing and fixed FDR. Now, not only do we have to worry that some motors aren't wound equal to others, but also that the placement of the hall sensors by the SMT machine might be better on some boards than others.

It's a shell game. You can move the problem around, but it's always there. The best we can hope for is to try and find a balance.
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Old 07-22-2013, 04:57 PM   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robk View Post
It looks like somebody has been soldering on that thing. Are those the right hall sensors?
Quote:
Originally Posted by napoleon1981 View Post
Yes the hall sensors are advanced, probably a degree or 5.
Quote:
Originally Posted by silden View Post
Yes the sensors are moved, but is this motor really faster?
You have to be move all the sensors the same ammount to get any positve effect.
The gain is 10 degrees.... Not real improvements on the track but the motor runs much cooler what can be an advantage in hot conditions. But you will never know if you do not try the tricks, all only for a test to see where the advantages are.
Again, such a simple thing can be overlooked, for sure if technical inspection does not have a list of how to detect all kind of illigal mods.
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Old 07-22-2013, 07:21 PM   #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robk View Post
If you had 13.5 open esc TC as the top class, 17.5 blinky TC and whatever other support class (or maybe 2 support classes), does anybody think that could work on US style tracks?



I have no idea what would work, I'm honestly asking for opinions.
I don't think that 13.5 is popular enough to consider it a class for TC. I personally think mod and 17.5 tc. Then maybe a catch class for 12th since it seems that not enough guys run mod something like a 13.5 open esc. There are more than enough tracks to run 2 track outdoor and 2 track indoor.

I think it would work if you made an east vs. west and meet in the middle at hobbyplex in Omaha or Mikes for the true National nice and in the middle.
I can name a handful of tracks and wouldn't mind going to 4 races to make a points series with points and then a National in the middle. National race being a 5th race. Just like Ama supercross style. Have the top 20 guys etc from each side race against each other. Then take the top 5 and do a east vs. west race. Make it real interesting by adding some cash prizes to promote the racing. Do a dash for cash just like over there.

Any thoughts? Try to make the 4 races a two day race to keep vacations and travel down.
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Old 07-22-2013, 07:56 PM   #224
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I personally would be all in on a format like that, with my hands and feet ready to throw money around. I'm sure the 5 mod purists left in the country would complain though.
Maybe in your area mod is dead but its still alive and growing here in Texas. We just had 14 guys in our last Texas Series race and those are just the hard core guys that travel. And yes, most of them are well known racers from years past or up and coming drivers. There are more than 5 of us!
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Old 07-22-2013, 08:35 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by NolanP View Post
I don't think that 13.5 is popular enough to consider it a class for TC. I personally think mod and 17.5 tc. Then maybe a catch class for 12th since it seems that not enough guys run mod something like a 13.5 open esc. There are more than enough tracks to run 2 track outdoor and 2 track indoor.
13.5 TC has been as popular as mod at most races this year, and nobody is saying mod isn't popular enough to consider it as a class.

Mod needs to go. It's holding us back. Sorry it didn't work out.
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