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Old 06-26-2013, 08:04 AM   #1
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Default T.O.P. Racing Rebel F1 (R-F01)

I recently built up this car and OD (odpurple here on rctech) asked me to start a thread for it, so here we go! I also know Smyka is running one of these, so hopefully we can get some insight from him as well about setup, etc.

First off, I would recommend that you purchase the following, in addition to the kit:

- TOP Racing (AW-KS050RD) Pan Car King Pin Spacer - 0.5mm (8pcs)
- TOP Racing (AW-KS100RD) Pan Car King Pin Spacer - 1mm (8pcs)
- TOP Racing (AW-KS200RD) Pan Car King Pin Spacer - 2mm (8pcs)
- TOP Racing (AW-KS300RD) Pan Car King Pin Spacer - 3mm (8pcs)
- M2.5x14mm or so screws for the rear axle with Pardus tires

Assembly
The car goes together fairly well, but there are a couple items that are a little different from the instruction manual:

Forget about the bit I wrote about the rear wing brace. Somehow I completely missed that this wasn't countersunk, so I can just flip the wing brace over and get it to mount correctly.

Also on Page 8, you can use AE side links if you also use AE pivot balls. TOP side links are notoriously fragile, but the F1 car does have some side impact protection, in the shape of two hunks of carbon.

On Page 9 of the manual, COMPLETELY IGNORE the step that asks you to trim down the 16mm ball cup for the center shock to only 13mm. If you do this, it is very difficult to make the center shock long enough for this car. Leave the ball cup as is: 16mm. I trimmed mine down (didn't know any better) and I can hardly get the shock long enough for the pod to be level with the chassis plate.

I will make some later posts on the F104 front end, as per instructions provided by OD. There are a couple option parts you can make use of, but the install is relatively straightforward if you are familiar with the F104 front end. Honestly, the servo mounting is the only interesting/different part, as you can see in this image:

http://i.imgur.com/afcbdtQ.jpg

Ride Height Adjustment:
OD tells me that you only need 3mm of spacers for the rear axle if you are using Pit Shimizus and you will be at ~4.5mm ride height. Not sure on the front, hopefully he will chime in.

If using Pardus tires (for instance, at IIC) ride height spacing for the rear is a bit more difficult. This is where you will need the longer M2.5 screws, and a good amount of spacers, as per the image below:

http://i.imgur.com/G13RAZE.jpg

For front ride height, you will have to mess around with kingpin spacers depending on the front spring you use. I found that with the Tamiya soft front spring I used the following spacing to be at ~4.5mm with Pardus tires: 4mm underneath the steering block, 1mm above it. See image below:

http://i.imgur.com/3xpj8oq.jpg

Setup

I don't think my current setup is fast, since I have only driven the car a handful of times, but with the F104 front end this is what I have evolved to thus far:

- Pardus tires (prep for IIC)
- Tamiya soft front springs, no kingpin lube
- 1 degree of camber
- AE Olive center spring, TOP stock Gold side springs
- 50k tube lube (this is too stiff, maybe try 35k?)
- no pod droop
- 4.5mm front ride height, 5mm rear

Hopefully Smyka can chime in with his thoughts re: setup.
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Last edited by LloydLoar; 06-26-2013 at 11:01 AM.
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Old 06-26-2013, 08:16 AM   #2
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They have been having a lot of success in Europe with this car, but here in the US you have to change the frontend to a Tamiya. There should be a few set ups floating around on the TOP racing Facebook page. I'll see if I can find one and post it.
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Old 06-26-2013, 08:25 AM   #3
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Yep! The last ETS race was won with one of these, although it looks like he ran an interesting hybrid front end that used TOP lower arms and the Exotek upper arms. Hard to say, though, as I only have one image to reference:

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Old 06-26-2013, 10:36 AM   #4
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Thanks for starting the thread L.L. The Rebel F1 is starting to have an impact on the US racing scene in spite of the complication of having to add the Tamiya front end. That in itself is a simple process and we have parts lists and information available that will make it easier for those not familiar with the F104 front end.

Set-ups for the R-F01 are not radically different from other F1 cars being run, but some of us (like me) have never run F1 before and could benefit from hearing what others are doing. Please post your set ups and how your car compares with your local competition.
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:39 AM   #5
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[QUOTE=LloydLoar;12291802]Yep! The last ETS race was won with one of these, although it looks like he ran an interesting hybrid front end that used TOP lower arms and the Exotek upper arms. Hard to say, though, as I only have one image to reference:

I've been getting eyestrain looking at a blown up version of this pic trying to figure out exactly what he did, it looks very clever. It would not be legal by most US rules but a nice approach to be sure
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Old 06-26-2013, 11:03 AM   #6
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I completely messed up with the rear wing brace comment I made in my original post and have since revised it. Somehow I completely missed that this carbon piece isn't countersunk, which means it should be accurate as per the instructions. Whoops!

On a related side note, if you want to get your car to rotate easier and have a lower CG, you can try mounting the carbon brace upside down and it will lower the wing height!
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Old 06-26-2013, 11:34 AM   #7
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I forgot to mention that the R-F01 took 3rd place at the 2012 IIC in Las Vegas. Driven by Jorden Borne, I think that was the first big race introduction of the Rebel F1
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Last edited by odpurple; 06-26-2013 at 04:23 PM.
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Old 06-26-2013, 11:36 AM   #8
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It's nice to see a thread here for this car! I am assuming the setup above is for carpet , as it looks like it would be oversteer heaven on a parking lot track.

Excellent build tips. I did the AE side link change for durability reasons as well.

Some further tips:

One can use the Exotek #1141 F104 servo mounts in the car with no problem.

For rubber tires, you can run the "A" axle blocks (Mike can correct me if I am wrong) in the rear instead of using all those spacers. Going off of memory, I want to say that you end up with a 5mm ride height with Shimizu tires using "A" blocks and no spacers. The spacer thing worked well, but it got painful for maintenance because I didn't want to glue them together.
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Old 06-26-2013, 11:45 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wagnerov View Post
It's nice to see a thread here for this car! I am assuming the setup above is for carpet , as it looks like it would be oversteer heaven on a parking lot track.

For rubber tires, you can run the "A" axle blocks (Mike can correct me if I am wrong) in the rear instead of using all those spacers. Going off of memory, I want to say that you end up with a 5mm ride height with Shimizu tires using "A" blocks and no spacers. The spacer thing worked well, but it got painful for maintenance because I didn't want to glue them together.
Yep, this is on carpet.

And yes, I have since rotated the B axle blocks the other way around and removed some of the spacers. Still need to try the A blocks, though.
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Old 06-26-2013, 11:55 AM   #10
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Hi

Regarding the side link , I'm running the Rebel 12 , and same link is used. In the beginning I had same problems , but then I boiled the links , 3 minutes in boiling water , and hasn't broken one since.

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Old 06-26-2013, 12:02 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsen-dk View Post
Hi

Regarding the side link , I'm running the Rebel 12 , and same link is used. In the beginning I had same problems , but then I boiled the links , 3 minutes in boiling water , and hasn't broken one since.

Michael
Good idea, I forgot about that one. I will definitely be trying it.

I have had very little trouble with links on my Rebel 12s, and have been breaking them a lot on the F1. Then again, I regularly get 9's and 10's from the judges for my spectacular aerial acrobatics with the F1
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Old 06-26-2013, 01:12 PM   #12
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Good info here but there is already a thread started for this car, Maybe this is the official one.

http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...ight=top+rebel
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Old 06-26-2013, 01:29 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racer robert View Post
Good info here but there is already a thread started for this car, Maybe this is the official one.

http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...ight=top+rebel
Hopefully we can make this the official thread for the F-201, as that one hasn't seen a post in a year and is quite dated. In that short time F1 in the USA has changed quite a bit with the success of UF1, RCFIA and others. The focus of this thread is racing on rubber tires with the front end legal by US rules and how the R-F01 adapts to those parameters
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Old 06-26-2013, 02:15 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odpurple View Post
Hopefully we can make this the official thread for the F-201, as that one hasn't seen a post in a year and is quite dated. In that short time F1 in the USA has changed quite a bit with the success of UF1, RCFIA and others. The focus of this thread is racing on rubber tires with the front end legal by US rules and how the R-F01 adapts to those parameters
Right on,

I Race with Jordan Borne in Dallas and he is one hell of a driver in all classes he races on and off road. He came back from Vegas just raving about the
R-F01. We also have a couple of other Dallas F1 racers that have and enjoy racing this car. I just need to keep twisting James Lundberg's arm to get one of these. He already has all the other chassis that TOP offers just no F1 yet.
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Old 06-26-2013, 04:23 PM   #15
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We raced the Pardus tires in the UF1 MIDWEST series all last winter. I found that both the inside and outside of the side wall on the front tire should be completely glued up, and possibly slightly onto he tread on the outside if traction dictates. We also glued the outside of the rear sidewall.

Most of the time I ran a green or purple CRC side spring, and 200K lube in the side tube. I was kind of all over the place on the shock. Sometimes I ran it with the sliver spring off of a Tamiya F1 plastic friction shock (really soft) or a blue CRC. At one point I was up to a Tamiya black from the F104v2 which is really stiff. Towards the end stiffer seemed better on the spring.

You probably want to let the spring just touch the chassis or have a little preload, and go to a softer spring. I had been trying to let the springs "float" but as traction goes up the car will hike tires. Not as bad as traction roll, but not real fast either.

Most of the time on the front I ran CRC .45 mm springs and 50K on the kingpins with an Exotek F104 front end. The CRC Springs are shorter than Tamiya springs, so if you go back and forth you'll need a 1mm spacer I think. You can use the camber adjuster plate on the front end to get different length camber links like a sedan...higher number (2.5*) longer arm and vice versa. I omit the 2 spacers under the camber plate so I can get more adjustment on the arm angle. I think 3.5mm is the difference if you want to bring the arm back to standard height. Camber was usually around 1* and 1* or 1.5* on the camber plate for upper arm length.

Caster is a big deal. I was usually around 7*. The thing is adding caster will definitely get the steering, but it will also contribute to traction roll since you're cross weighting the rear end. IF you run a short pack, run it forward as bite comes up to help kill the traction roll. The more weight going across the pivot the worse the traction roll problems.

The battery weight is a big deal too. By the end of the season, we found that you sort of have to set the car up around the battery position. Full forward was best for carpet unless the track was really green or something like that.

A couple things maybe for the TOP people to think about:

A longer left side wheel hub would allow the car to reach 190mm with spacers easily and maintain the axle assembly's integrity. I was able to space my axle out to 190mm, but I had to put a set screw in the left side hub to keep the axle together.

A stiffer chassis for carpet racing. One problem I had was at a super tight track with less than super grip. The car would not turn in the infield, but it would traction roll the sweeper. I tried to get this car working for 2 days but it would not respond (note: I full realize that I may just be dumb). Anyway, switching to a Tamiya F104V2 car put me right back on pace. I noticed the Tamiya has a 3mm chassis, and from what I can see the TOP is 2.5mm? I have had a similar problem with an Exotek conversion that had a 2.25mm chassis. I think the standard chassis is great most of the time, but sometimes the flex at the front / servo area does weird stuff. Maybe just eliminate the triangle cutout on the front? I don't know..

One thing the car had from the first run was a ton of corner speed, that was instantly noticeable.
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