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Old 06-21-2013, 09:52 AM   #31
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140 entries isn't bad but for RROC it isn't good. Our club gets 90+ on any race day. We are having a big club race next week and will easily surpass 140 entries. Our club races outside of of mainstream L.A.

I've race Reedy three times in the past. When it was at Tamiya Facility with plenty of parking at that time. It sold out every year there, 10+ racers showing up that were on the waiting list hoping to get in. Maybe three of them would get in. My first attempt I missed the cut. Second year I was in and loved it.

The next two years I was in but the interest from the racers was down. The track was now Speedworld in Sacramtemto with plenty of parking. Open class didn't sell out. RCGT and stock took longer than usual. There wasn't enough racers it seemed like.

The following year it moved to Union City also in Northern California. Nor-Cal Hobbies has been hosting ever since. I haven't been there but the racers I talk to say the love the track. I never heard about the parking situation for RVs. That is how I'd end up going.

I could be wrong on this one but I've heard that some international racers travel with family so while the racer is racing the family is visiting tourist attractions in SoCal. There is plenty of it too. I think with Disneyland, Seaworld, and Hollywood being so far from the track in Northern California. It may deter the invitational class from wanting to race at Reedy.

Just my thoughts.
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Old 06-21-2013, 10:00 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Stratus Racer View Post
140 entries isn't bad but for RROC it isn't good. Our club gets 90+ on any race day. We are having a big club race next week and will easily surpass 140 entries. Our club races outside of of mainstream L.A.

I've race Reedy three times in the past. When it was at Tamiya Facility with plenty of parking at that time. It sold out every year there, 10+ racers showing up that were on the waiting list hoping to get in. Maybe three of them would get in. My first attempt I missed the cut. Second year I was in and loved it.

The next two years I was in but the interest from the racers was down. The track was now Speedworld in Sacramtemto with plenty of parking. Open class didn't sell out. RCGT and stock took longer than usual. There wasn't enough racers it seemed like.

The following year it moved to Union City also in Northern California. Nor-Cal Hobbies has been hosting ever since. I haven't been there but the racers I talk to say the love the track. I never heard about the parking situation for RVs. That is how I'd end up going.

I could be wrong on this one but I've heard that some international racers travel with family so while the racer is racing the family is visiting tourist attractions in SoCal. There is plenty of it too. I think with Disneyland, Seaworld, and Hollywood being so far from the track in Northern California. It may deter the invitational class from wanting to race at Reedy.

Just my thoughts.
What club??
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Old 06-21-2013, 10:15 AM   #33
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What club??
Ventura RoadRunners...88 race entries (of course some ran 2 classes) last club series race on 6/9. We average 14 heats consistently. Series races have been around 16 heats.
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Old 06-21-2013, 10:19 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Skiddins View Post
140+ entries, but how many actual drivers?
Quite a few people seem to do at least one other class, if not 3 of 4 classes in total.

How does that compare with the IIC and Snowbirds etc?

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Maybe two TC classes, but definitely a few names appearing in at least 3 classes.
I don't know the actual number, but at the RROC you are limited to two classes unless you want to race F1 which can be added as a third. I don't think anyone raced all three and not that many races two. But it is common to race 3-4 classes at US on and off road electric races.

Keep in mind that the RROC is a TC race only. There were more entries in both mod and 17.5 compared to the Birds and nearly as many 13.5. But when you add in E mains in some of the pan car classes at the Birds you end up with a lot more drivers. The 2013 RROC had more mod entries than the birds, IIC, and the last few ROAR nats.

It is easy to look at the RROC and think the race is small but the available classes stack up comparably to the larger races we have in the US.
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Old 06-21-2013, 10:21 AM   #35
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I wanted to clarify my thoughts a bit from my original post. There are two separate things that are bothering me about this. One is how stock racing is (again) being somewhat disrespected. I'll address that in a later post though. The other is how RedRC handled this.

One of the local racers last night told me I was overreacting to RedRC, saying they were just the messenger, more or less. And I understand why he thinks that, but I feel like through omission, they did a lot more than just pass along the things that drivers were saying about the race. By not mentioning that RRoC was actually more successful overall than several years past, they skewed Marc's (and supposedly others') comments to support the opinon that RRoC should move out of the US. Because that's how you revive things, right? Take away one of the premiere events.

First, why even bother publishing those thoughts for everybody to see? All that accomplishes is further damage to the US reputation for on-road racing, something that is undeserved. Some of us are out here grinding it out, doing everything we can to try and make on-road better in this country, and we're having some success. I find it odd that in the same week, Scotty is quoted as saying that things are on the upswing here, even giving us a shout out (thanks!), and RedRC is publishing comments that paint a picture that's quite the opposite. And by completely omitting the fact that the race had more overall entries than years past, they're basically skewing things toward a conclusion that just isn't true. I know better than to expect journalistic integrity from a blog run out of mom's basement, but it still infuriates me.

If you want to continue to help revive on-road in America, stop talking about how it's dying. And that includes you, RedRC, who can't be bothered to cover any of the big on-road events here like IIC or Snowbirds. Don't think I haven't noticed.
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Old 06-21-2013, 10:24 AM   #36
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You want to see a class in decline? How about 1/8 off-road.
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Old 06-21-2013, 10:37 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Stratus Racer View Post
140 entries isn't bad but for RROC it isn't good. Our club gets 90+ on any race day. We are having a big club race next week and will easily surpass 140 entries. Our club races outside of of mainstream L.A.

I've race Reedy three times in the past. When it was at Tamiya Facility with plenty of parking at that time. It sold out every year there, 10+ racers showing up that were on the waiting list hoping to get in. Maybe three of them would get in. My first attempt I missed the cut. Second year I was in and loved it.

The next two years I was in but the interest from the racers was down. The track was now Speedworld in Sacramtemto with plenty of parking. Open class didn't sell out. RCGT and stock took longer than usual. There wasn't enough racers it seemed like.

The following year it moved to Union City also in Northern California. Nor-Cal Hobbies has been hosting ever since. I haven't been there but the racers I talk to say the love the track. I never heard about the parking situation for RVs. That is how I'd end up going.

I could be wrong on this one but I've heard that some international racers travel with family so while the racer is racing the family is visiting tourist attractions in SoCal. There is plenty of it too. I think with Disneyland, Seaworld, and Hollywood being so far from the track in Northern California. It may deter the invitational class from wanting to race at Reedy.

Just my thoughts.
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Ventura RoadRunners...88 race entries (of course some ran 2 classes) last club series race on 6/9. We average 14 heats consistently. Series races have been around 16 heats.
If the RROC offered, Mini, RCGT, Nastruck, 1/10 pan, VTA, and three 17.5 TC classes, it might get more entries. But as the organizers of the RROC, we want quality over quantity (a rarity in RC race promotion). Anyone who has participated at this or any RROC knows that the program is a full program. There is a lot of practice, 4 qualifiers, triple A mains all completed at a reasonable hour in 4 days (compared to 5 days for Snowbirds/IIC).

Sure I would like the race to be so popular that we could go back to turning people away, only offering 13.5 (formerly 19T) and mod classes, and only allowing each racer to run one class.

I think the format works pretty well for everyone who does race.
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Old 06-21-2013, 10:37 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
If you want to continue to help revive on-road in America, stop talking about how it's dying. And that includes you, RedRC, who can't be bothered to cover any of the big on-road events here like IIC or Snowbirds. Don't think I haven't noticed.
+1

Rick I don't think there is a need to defend the RROC
Looking forward to it next year btw
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Old 06-21-2013, 10:45 AM   #39
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The great thing about RROC, IIC, Snowbirds

These events normally have World Class drivers
And draw a healthy helping of regular Joes to race with

Obviously the ETS pull tons of drivers and sponsors, but I often wondered how that series would work here
It is a great sponsord race but the control on motors and other stuff is a joke, even the drivers that drive that race say so.

There was a lot of noise in a dutch forum about cheating with the handout motors. (the same type of motors are being used in the nationals and some drivers did modify them) This is ontop of the fact that some races ago the ETS organisation handed out some motors with the 10-20 degree timing board. FYI the standard motor is with 0-10 degree timing board.

Many of those 10-20 board motors blew up because drivers didn't notice the difference in boards and used the same FDR that was allowed on the track. Some drivers that did notice the difference were smart enough to change their fdr and were a lot faster but no one seem to care. Probably also that no one likes to be called a snitch.

During the ETS race in Apeldoorn in Holland the amca track checked all motors on thursday (probably cause all the stuff that was going on in the forums). There were motors pressent that took the "stock" rule too liberal (saying it nicely). They also exchanged the motors with 10-20 boards. They were exchanged with new ones on thursday.

During the qualifications the organisation checked a lot of motors again and ofcourse low and behold they didn't find any discrepancies. (if you first exchange all the "tuned" motors and then check it again no wonder)

Drivers could exchange the new motors when they feld the new motors were slower. I don't know why but there were drivers that exchanged their motor 5 times.

On redrc they wrote somewhere in the line of:
There were rumourse of cheating but they didn't find any motor out of spec.

Uwe said he got fed up of the dutch negging and was thinking to move the race somewhere else. So instead of doing something active with the information that they receive they are saying the drivers negg to much....ok

Just writting how it went. I don't drive TC, It is all information that was put on the forum by drivers that were pressent during the race in apeldoorn. I think the drivers that are giving the info should not be seen as complaining but I gues that is up to the organisation. I think that the track did an outstanding job of checking/ dynoing every motor for discrepancies and exchanging those out for new ones.

Now, the reason I wrote the above is that I think "journalism" of red rc is a joke and you could even say it is somewhat "colored". The stuff that is being written on red rc by certain writers does nothing more then bringing a negative vibe to RC racing.
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Old 06-21-2013, 10:47 AM   #40
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Rick, no one is disputing that quality of races. The Initial post is directed at RROC is in decline of invitational drivers attendance. Simply my observation. At Speedworld we were told that companies didn't want to send their invitational racers because they were afraid of swine flu epidemic turning pandemic. We all know that was hog wash.

I thought it is more of location and the tourist thing more than anything else. I too would like to see RROC return to its glory days. Back at Tamiya of course.
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Old 06-21-2013, 10:57 AM   #41
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Now, on to my second point about stock racing.

If you want to see something interesting, go watch the stock and mod videos from last weekend's ETS, and tell me where the better racing happened. Here, I'll make it easy for you: it wasn't mod. While Ronald is out there trying to monkeyf*** the entire field, and everybody else is smashing into each other, the stock guys are having AWESOME races with actual clean passing.

Stock racing makes up, what, 90% of on-road club racing? I like watching the top guys battle it out in mod, I think it's a spectacular show of talent, but for me, personally, a guy that buys all of his stuff at 100% full price (RCMARKET is my anti-sponsor), I don't really feel that strongly about what equipment those guys run. And I think a lot of racers like me realize that at some point, you can make pretty much anything work well enough to be competitive. Even if a company has a sub-par product, if they get the right people using it, they can win, or at least do well, and give the illusion that their product would also be competitive in the hands of the average racer. It's a fallacy.

Technology in racing comes from the bottom up. The bashing trends become the stock trends become the mod trends. Look at LiPo, brushless, boost, etc. And yet, stock racing is the red-headed step-child of RC racing. I get that it doesn't have the star factor and the glamour of mod, whatever that's worth, but when it comes down to making smart choices about your equipment, buying everything the top guys run is rarely the right decision for the kinds of people that are actually out there racing as their hobby.

And now, let's really mix things up. I have created a chart showing many of the major purchases people make in RC racing. Then, I've taken each one and rated how I think people's buying decisions are influenced. Either through local racers, stock racers at big events, or pro mod racers at big events. Obviously this is skewed heavily toward the racing crowd, and it's just my perspective. But, if I'm even close to being right, and I think I am, you have to wonder why all the press and prestige on this hobby focus on the top, when it's clearly driven by the bottom.

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Old 06-21-2013, 11:04 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Hohwart View Post
If the RROC offered, Mini, RCGT, Nastruck, 1/10 pan, VTA, and three 17.5 TC classes, it might get more entries. But as the organizers of the RROC, we want quality over quantity (a rarity in RC race promotion). Anyone who has participated at this or any RROC knows that the program is a full program. There is a lot of practice, 4 qualifiers, triple A mains all completed at a reasonable hour in 4 days (compared to 5 days for Snowbirds/IIC).

Sure I would like the race to be so popular that we could go back to turning people away, only offering 13.5 (formerly 19T) and mod classes, and only allowing each racer to run one class.

I think the format works pretty well for everyone who does race.
For the record Rick I agree with you and Dave just said it best, there is no need for you defend the RROC. I was just giving you info on our race attendance. In our case people seem to like the various classes that are ran because it's a club and there's no focus on profit but it's still true onroad racing.
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Old 06-21-2013, 11:05 AM   #43
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Rick, this one. I hope you and other mod racers can make it too! If you do, I'll treat you to lunch. Really, I'm serious.


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Formerly known as The Big Fat Turkey Race - while we are done with the turkey and moving on. Same race, different name.....

thanks
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Hope I can make it!
15 classes? I think that is a record!
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Old 06-21-2013, 11:08 AM   #44
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Rick, no one is disputing that quality of races. The Initial post is directed at RROC is in decline of invitational drivers attendance. Simply my observation. At Speedworld we were told that companies didn't want to send their invitational racers because they were afraid of swine flu epidemic turning pandemic. We all know that was hog wash.

I thought it is more of location and the tourist thing more than anything else. I too would like to see RROC return to its glory days. Back at Tamiya of course.
To me it seemed as though you were comparing club race number to RROC numbers which is like comparing apples to oranges.

The location is a factor but San Francisco is not exactly a place for tourists to avoid.

Invitational class suffers because.

1. An ETS race is scheduled consistently the week before.
2. This year the Euros warm-up was the same weekend and last year the Worlds warmup was the weekend after.
3. The TC market, although growing again, is not as big as it once was.
4. TC teams are smaller than they were.
5. Fewer NA drivers worthy of racing Invitational - of 33 drivers in the 2004 Invite class, 17 were Americans!
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Old 06-21-2013, 11:35 AM   #45
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And that includes you, RedRC, who can't be bothered to cover any of the big on-road events here like IIC or Snowbirds. Don't think I haven't noticed.

Can't be bothered?
You know RedRC is based in Europe right?

You know RedRC accepts articles from contributors right?

Why not contact them and offer some race reports written by yourself? That's "if you can be bothered".
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