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Old 01-06-2006, 02:00 PM   #1111
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the only other tray I have is an old Trinity memory buster. Will that work?
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Old 01-06-2006, 03:30 PM   #1112
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ok the IP vs IB deal has come up alot.

on the pro match web site they offer all three brands of cells

GP3700 1.190 volts 440 run time that is there best cell
IP3800 1.20 volts 470 run time that is there best cell
IB3800 1.21 volts 470 run time that is there best cell
THOSE ARE 30 AMP NUMBERS.

HOW IN THE HELL IS A IP CELL BETTER?
if IP has made changes in the last 10 days and some matchers have the newset cells and the run time jumps 30 plus seconds than yes i would have to say IP is in the same ball park as IB...problem is IP cells are larger than the IB cells.......since there roar legal i think IB will than make there cell match the IP cell and increase the run time as well?????? i use pro match as an example because they match all 3 brands of cells and sell them by run time and voltage.

honestly if you can't run fast with an IB cell a GP 3700 is not going to help by any means. both IP and GP are playing catch up to IB..i hope this doesn't get out of hand in 2006 with each manufacturer one upping the next each month! errrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
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Old 01-06-2006, 04:20 PM   #1113
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Intellect will not increase the size of there cell since EFRA and BRCA don't allow cells to be over 43mm so the only place where the longer cells could be used would be in the US market. So far they are doing real well with a 43mm cell.
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Old 01-06-2006, 06:13 PM   #1114
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Okay, first #s after suggestion. 3736mah 8.985volts. On seconed cycle now.
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Old 01-06-2006, 08:26 PM   #1115
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Second #'s 3723mah and 9.012volts. A decline in capacity yet an increase in voltage. Going to try one more cycle. If no improvement, you can't say I didn't try.lol
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Old 01-06-2006, 09:21 PM   #1116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeetleBailey
Second #'s 3723mah and 9.012volts. A decline in capacity yet an increase in voltage. Going to try one more cycle. If no improvement, you can't say I didn't try.lol
Is there a way you can test for a week cell. That might be the problem.

How long is it taking you to equalize the batteries? You have done two cycles in a very short period...

If you don't have an EQ tray try this.

Go to Radio Shack and buy 6 - 1 ohm 2W or higher resistors (I think they sell them in 5 or 10 Watts)

Charge your battery pack, then attach one rsistor between the positive and negative side of EACH cell so that each cell will discharge. (You can solder aligator clips to each resistor and attach them to the solder bars. Resistors ARE NOT polirized, so direction does not matter) Do not close the circuit, you want the + and - ends of the pack to be free, they should not be attached to each other. you want to discharge EACH cell individualy by doing this.
Leve them like this for 3 hours (+/-). This will bring the cells down at a low current <1.2A. You can bring them down as low as 0.3 volts, just measure them with your voltmeter. At 0.3v the cells will only pull 300ma so you are in a very safe range.
You are going to build a simple equalization tray with these resistors.
If you can cjeck periodicaly the voltage across each resistor to see if there is a weaker cell it will help. All the cells should be around the same voltage (+/- a few millivolts) otherwise if some cells show a substantialy lower voltage they are bad.
After this, let them cool down and charge one more time at 3A.

Lets see if this helps.
Otherwise, the cells have been damaged or you have one or several weak or dead cells that could be causing the problems.

Let me know if I can help more.
I am thinkikg of evberything you can do with the equipment you have to save your cells.

If this does not work, and if you want, you can send us your battery pack and I will check it for you free of charge. If I find a weak cell or something else I will let you know. The idea is to save the good batteries if you have any left.
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Old 01-06-2006, 09:34 PM   #1117
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All six are reading very close to the same. Charged or discharged. I'm going to try and borrow a Smart Tray over the weekend. I'm really disapointed right now. I was hoping these would really help. The class I run is very tight. My GP3300's just don't have enough punch for the A to help me get to the top. Mind you, I have 3 boys I'm trying to get involved also, so money is tight. Especially when you are talking about $70 a battery. This is the most problems I've had out of batteries. My GP's never gave me fits like this. I just want me and my sons to be competeive so they will stay interested. Thanks, Bailey.
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Old 01-06-2006, 09:46 PM   #1118
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So your saying that all the lights are going off on your 0-30 at about the same time ? If this is the case then it's not a shorted/dead cell and you must of over discharged your pack which in turn removes some of the capacity.
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Old 01-06-2006, 09:49 PM   #1119
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There is one cell that is about a half second slower than the rest. Other that that one, they all dimm at about the same time.
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Old 01-06-2006, 09:54 PM   #1120
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Did you leave your pack on the tray for a long a period of time or have you stored it after placing it on the tray ?
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Old 01-06-2006, 09:56 PM   #1121
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yea IB are different especailly these new 3800. you really have to take care of them.

the older GPs are more robust where you can let them sit at low voltage for a while and not do major harm.

the 3800 arent like your 3300s
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Old 01-06-2006, 09:58 PM   #1122
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I would always put 500secs back in before the next week. I guess I'll send it to one of you guys to look at. I have always taken very good care of my bats. Heck the Fusion GP 3300's I use are almost two years old. All six of them are still rockin.
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Old 01-06-2006, 10:24 PM   #1123
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Is your pack slow or just not running as long on the track anymore ?
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Old 01-06-2006, 10:27 PM   #1124
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We run 5 min heats and main. It starts dumping with about 45secs to go. I was going to buy two more of these packs tomrrow, but not now. Is it because they're the Integy label?
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Old 01-06-2006, 10:32 PM   #1125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeetleBailey
There is one cell that is about a half second slower than the rest. Other that that one, they all dimm at about the same time.

.5 seconds is nothing... However.... your batteries are discharging way too fast so it is hard to tell without graphing them at a lower amp rate.

Yet, this will not cause the problem you are having.
Overdischarging batteries is worst than to just leave them alone.
Although many people are going crazy over the 030, IMO it is NOT the best way to discharge batteries. Yes, the clamps are very NEAT, but it discharges at a very high rate and the lights are useless in my opinion. They go off at 0.4 volts, which is allready too low for some IB's. By the time you taken them out the batteries can be down to 0.2 volts since it is still pulling over 12 AMPS at 0.4 volts. That is just WAY TOO MUCH.
Even at 0.1volts the 030 is pulling 3 amps. This is asking for trouble...
Once a battery reaches 1 volt, the rate of discharge is exponential, thus extremely fast. It only takes <10 seconds to go from 1.0 to 0.9v at 30A. And the 030 pulls 30 amps at 1 volt... 36 amps at 1.2 volts...

At this point it looks like you might have caused irreversible damage to the IB's. This is not because the IB's are bad cells, it is because the cells were abused one way or another.

Now, I want to make something clear, there is a misconception that the GP's are more robust than the IB's. This is not completely true.
Each battery has it merrits and each should be maintained the right way. The problem is that many persons overdischarge the cells and that causes damage. If maintained the right way, IB's can last as long as any other cell in the market. We have team drivers using 4 month old packs and they are noticing a slight decrease in POWER. I make our team drivers keep and race their batteries for an entire racing season so that we can find better ways to maintain them. If they get new packs every month, we can not perform the right tests and figure better ways to make batteries last.
The idea is that if you spend your $$ for racing packs, they should last...and that is what we aim for.

Well, I just wanted to bring this point because many people are overdischarging their cells and then complain that IBs are not good cells.

Bailey, how are the cells performing at the track?
Lets forget the charge/discharge times for a moment...

BeetleBailey, if you want to PM me I will be glad to see how I can help you to bring the cells back. If it is possible at all.
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