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Old 11-28-2005, 03:35 AM   #841
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutabarucka
Yes i have a temp gun, and i will adjust my peak detect, and my motor is so hot when i finish racing i can not touch it, it comes off at around 230 deg, so what should i do to get it running cooler, if i gear down i loose speed, what should i do next, thank you guys.

You may be overgeared, but then again, you may be Undergeared. A motor will get SCREAMING hot if it is undergeared. Don't believe, run a motor with no load off a motor run in device or 3-4 cell pack (NO FAN) for 5 min.
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Old 11-28-2005, 03:58 AM   #842
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Originally Posted by PitCrew
You may be overgeared, but then again, you may be Undergeared. A motor will get SCREAMING hot if it is undergeared. Don't believe, run a motor with no load off a motor run in device or 3-4 cell pack (NO FAN) for 5 min.
True,you should ask one of the fast guys at your track to get an idea of what gear you should run,this is just an idea though, your motor will be different,things like set up and driving style have a lot to do with gearing also besides every motor is different! if you don't want to ask then look at your lap times vs the winners lap times this will tell the whole story.
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Old 11-28-2005, 05:32 AM   #843
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I have not read the entire issue with the motor but here are some facts...

If you are using IB3800 batteries, it is very common for motors to overheat. Mods can be taken care off by adjusting the timing. Stocks are another issue.

We have found that you need to trim the brushes. The trailing edge of the brush needs to be trimmed in order to cut the current flow and retard the timing a bit, you can also trim the top of the brush a few thousands.... IBs can deliver any current the motor will demand, and that is one of the reasons motors overhet. Yu also need to readjust your gearing...I assure you that it will help. YOU need to make sure that stock motors do not draw more than 11 amps under NO LOAD... That is the MAX. Otherwise you get into oversaturation due to excessive current draw.

I hope this will help.

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Old 11-28-2005, 06:06 AM   #844
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Thank you guys, i will try your suggestions.
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Old 12-11-2005, 08:31 PM   #845
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Im trying to figure out IB3800 matience and about 10 pages earlier in the thread it was posted that you should discharge to .9 volts after a raceday and then before you charge them put them in a high amp discharge tray for 1-2 minutes. When you discharge to .9 volts what Amp rate should this be at? And does it have to be in a tray? Since you arent taking the cells all the way to zero on the high amp tray, that probably wont equalize the cells, so you have to equalize them when you take them down to .9 volts? What equipment do you guys reccomend for this?
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Old 12-11-2005, 08:40 PM   #846
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BATT_MAN
I have not read the entire issue with the motor but here are some facts...

If you are using IB3800 batteries, it is very common for motors to overheat. Mods can be taken care off by adjusting the timing. Stocks are another issue.

We have found that you need to trim the brushes. The trailing edge of the brush needs to be trimmed in order to cut the current flow and retard the timing a bit, you can also trim the top of the brush a few thousands.... IBs can deliver any current the motor will demand, and that is one of the reasons motors overhet. Yu also need to readjust your gearing...I assure you that it will help. YOU need to make sure that stock motors do not draw more than 11 amps under NO LOAD... That is the MAX. Otherwise you get into oversaturation due to excessive current draw.

I hope this will help.

Isaac
Axxis Racing
Trimming material off only the Trailing edge of the brush will Advance the timing.

What voltage are you reffering to that the motor can't pull more than 11 amps?? I have stocks that pull 12-13 at 7 volts no load, and I run on high traction asphalt indoor touring, thats not a very big track (10 sec laps) I run 3800's and my motors rarely come off over 150 deg F. And my car is very fast. I have been experimenting with trimming the trailing edge (advancing the timing) with fairly good results. Seems the motor has a bit more grunt (due to reduced brush wrap) but still high RPM, so I was able to gear up 1 tooth. Car is super fast, and has better punch.
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Old 12-11-2005, 08:44 PM   #847
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PitCrew
Car is super fast, and has better punch.
I'll second that!!
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Old 12-12-2005, 11:26 AM   #848
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AE Racer
Im trying to figure out IB3800 matience and about 10 pages earlier in the thread it was posted that you should discharge to .9 volts after a raceday and then before you charge them put them in a high amp discharge tray for 1-2 minutes. When you discharge to .9 volts what Amp rate should this be at? And does it have to be in a tray? Since you arent taking the cells all the way to zero on the high amp tray, that probably wont equalize the cells, so you have to equalize them when you take them down to .9 volts? What equipment do you guys reccomend for this?

To remove the runtime that is left after your run you should use a high amp draw like 30/35 amps down to .90 per cell. This can be done on a T-35 or a cheaper way is the Integy Indi Reactor 30.
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Old 12-12-2005, 07:47 PM   #849
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I just picked up a 1/12th scale a month or so ago. I am using IB 3800's. I have a CE Pitbull X3, and a integy 030. I have been charging at 6V with an .02 peak detect as suggested on the SMC website. After a race I have been traying on the 030 until lights go off. allow to cool and recharge. I have two packs so one pack is getting used two times in a race day.

Evidently what I am doing is wrong from what I have been reading on here. It is suggested to discharge to .9V per cell. How do I do this? What sort of other equipment will I need to buy? Can someone explain the theory behind this..... why discharge to .9v per cell, then place on the integy after that?
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Old 12-12-2005, 09:03 PM   #850
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AE Racer
Im trying to figure out IB3800 matience and about 10 pages earlier in the thread it was posted that you should discharge to .9 volts after a raceday and then before you charge them put them in a high amp discharge tray for 1-2 minutes. When you discharge to .9 volts what Amp rate should this be at? And does it have to be in a tray? Since you arent taking the cells all the way to zero on the high amp tray, that probably wont equalize the cells, so you have to equalize them when you take them down to .9 volts? What equipment do you guys reccomend for this?

It is NOT AS important to charge equalized cells as it is to store the cells equalized. Does this make sense? Also, I am not sure if you ment too but you implyed in your post that only cells taken down to zero on a high amp discharge tray can be equalized. This is not true and actually more likely the reverse of that is true. To equalize the cells you want to bring all the cells down to the same amperage as slow as possible (well slow to a point is enough). IMO 30, 20, 10 or even 5 amps is too fast to discharge.

After you run or cycle the pack, discharge the pack to 5.4 volts and throw it on an equalizing tray. I use and recommend the Novak. Store them that way. Storing them equalized trains them to remain equalized.

Before the next charge, place them on a tray for several minutes. I use the Integy 0-30. For practice I leave them on there at least 5 minutes for races I leave them on there at least 10. Since the cells were stored equalized and now you are discharging an equalized pack, the pack will most likely remain equalized assuming you have a good tray.

I remove the cells from the tray and let them sit for 5 minutes then charge them as usual!
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Old 12-12-2005, 09:18 PM   #851
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when were the updated batch of IB3800's released?
thanks
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Old 12-12-2005, 09:37 PM   #852
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koabich
It is NOT AS important to charge equalized cells as it is to store the cells equalized. Does this make sense? Also, I am not sure if you ment too but you implyed in your post that only cells taken down to zero on a high amp discharge tray can be equalized. This is not true and actually more likely the reverse of that is true. To equalize the cells you want to bring all the cells down to the same amperage as slow as possible (well slow to a point is enough). IMO 30, 20, 10 or even 5 amps is too fast to discharge.

After you run or cycle the pack, discharge the pack to 5.4 volts and throw it on an equalizing tray. I use and recommend the Novak. Store them that way. Storing them equalized trains them to remain equalized.

Before the next charge, place them on a tray for several minutes. I use the Integy 0-30. For practice I leave them on there at least 5 minutes for races I leave them on there at least 10. Since the cells were stored equalized and now you are discharging an equalized pack, the pack will most likely remain equalized assuming you have a good tray.

I remove the cells from the tray and let them sit for 5 minutes then charge them as usual!
Danny said that you should use a turbo 35 to discharge to .9 volts after a race day and disnt mention equalizing them, so apparently his method doesnt call for them to be equalized when they are stored.

So what is the purpose of the high amp tray that you discharge them with before charging? The goal of Danny's method is not to take them down to zero, so then why discharge them at all if it isnt really equalizing or anything? Why use a high amp tray is it just for speed in discharging or to simulate racing conditions?

I sent a bunch of questions to Danny in a pm, but Ill post them here and mabey someone else can help me out.
Would it be good enough if I discharged at 20 amps on my 16x5v6 after a race day? I race offroad so the actual amp draw might be similar, I generally run a 14x2 in buggy. Danny said earlier in the thread that before you charge them you should put them in a high amp discharge tray for 1-2 minutes. Since you arent taking the cells all the way to zero on the high amp tray, that wont equalize the cells, and since you dont equalize the cells when you take them down to .9 volts/cell, when are they getting equalized?

What do you guys think of the new team wave tray (http://www.teamwaveonline.com/main/Product)? Apparently it maintains the cutoff voltage by adjusting the discharge rate rather than switching off and letting the voltage rise, or switching on and off, and it takes the current down to zero, but its lowest cutoff is .7 volts/cell. Would the .7 volts/cell be a problem or is the only reason you take them down to zero to equalize both the voltage and capacity?

Last edited by AE Racer; 12-12-2005 at 10:03 PM.
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Old 12-12-2005, 09:48 PM   #853
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AE Racer
Danny said earlier in the thread that before you charge them you should put them in a high amp discharge tray for 1-2 minutes. Since you arent taking the cells all the way to zero on the high amp tray, that wont equalize the cells, and since you dont equalize the cells when you take them down to .9 volts/cell, when are they getting equalized?
If you put your pack in a tray that discharges each individual cell down to .9v before a race, you are, in effect, equalizing them. Just because they aren't brought down to 0v doesn't mean they aren't being equalized, as they are all at the same equal voltage of .9v. Unless I misunderstood your question, I believe that answers it. I don't think bringing the ib3800 cell down to 0v is a good practice, I've only brought mine down to .9v per cell for storage between weekends and right before a charge and they have held close to the same capacity and put out close to the same voltage as the day I bought them.
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Old 12-12-2005, 10:00 PM   #854
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott S
If you put your pack in a tray that discharges each individual cell down to .9v before a race, you are, in effect, equalizing them. Just because they aren't brought down to 0v doesn't mean they aren't being equalized, as they are all at the same equal voltage of .9v. Unless I misunderstood your question, I believe that answers it. I don't think bringing the ib3800 cell down to 0v is a good practice, I've only brought mine down to .9v per cell for storage between weekends and right before a charge and they have held close to the same capacity and put out close to the same voltage as the day I bought them.
I think you misunderstood the question, Danny's method doesnt involve a tray that discharges them with a cutoff of .9 volts/cell. His method is discharge at around 30amps with a regular discharger after a race day to .9volts/cell, and then the next race day put them on a 0-30 tray for 1 to 2 minutes then charge them.
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Old 12-12-2005, 10:06 PM   #855
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koabich
After you run or cycle the pack, discharge the pack to 5.4 volts and throw it on an equalizing tray. I use and recommend the Novak. Store them that way. Storing them equalized trains them to remain equalized.
Just FYI storing them on the Novak Smart thingie doesn't KEEP your cells equalized at ANY set voltage. Once each individual cell reaches the set voltage the light goes out and the voltage SLOWLY climbs back a bit. The NST doesn't HOLD the cells at that set voltage just takes them there and shuts off. I don't know much about the IB cells YET (I will be doing my own tests) but I do know that they don't like to be stored at 0volts like the GP33's and 37's; they're more tempermental.
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Last edited by JayBee; 12-12-2005 at 10:22 PM.
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