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Old 08-30-2005, 05:52 AM   #286
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trf racer - the cells mentioned by asw7576 are discharged at 35 amps not 30 amps. The numbers are good.

Also you cannot compare LRP packs with any other company as they use a non-industry standard method of discharging which shows highly inflated numbers.
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Old 08-30-2005, 05:53 AM   #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trf racer
those numbers are defo wrong for ib3800.
ive got longer runtimes and voltage on my gp3300.
on my lrp ib 3600 ive got 512 runtime and 1.2+ for average numbers.
this si at 30amps true value.constant 30amp discharge]
Those are 35 amps numbers. All SMC battereis are done at 35 amps. Thats very very good runtime for 35.

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Old 08-30-2005, 06:17 AM   #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EAMotorsports
Those are 35 amps numbers. All SMC battereis are done at 35 amps. Thats very very good runtime for 35.

EA
ok sorry not up on smc ways of doing things.
what is the point/advantage in doing this at 35amps?
LRP numbers are 30amp true match batteries.
you can not compare any numbers from different matchers,i see that,even if they do use the ndustry standard[whichever that may be].
on my LRP3700UP[based on IB3600]i get a 3800-4000mah once charged,this is using 5.5amps charge with a cut off of ,.15v per pack.iam charging on LRP pulsar2 charger,which seems to give quite low figures anyways.
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Old 08-30-2005, 06:27 AM   #289
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Most matchers use CE Turbomatchers so that you can get at least a close comparison. LRP use a variable discharge system not used by other companies so that they will always get bigger (false) numbers compared to all other matchers. The trouble is that inexperienced racers fall for this and think they are far better than other brands.
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Old 08-30-2005, 06:40 AM   #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannon
Most matchers use CE Turbomatchers so that you can get at least a close comparison. LRP use a variable discharge system not used by other companies so that they will always get bigger (false) numbers compared to all other matchers. The trouble is that inexperienced racers fall for this and think they are far better than other brands.
i do not know the full process of the LRP batterys,i just race them lol.
i had some very good orion gp3300 and the lrp are even better.
i could of said there trinity,orion/peak,LRP,or any other major battery matcher and all there processes are different,you got to go with what you think are the best,and iam.
i can not see why smc ave gone to 35amp discharge?maybe to hide something,i dunno,and to be honest i dont care.
at the end of the day,all the matchers get the same cells,no matchers have special cells,and they are all gona be around the same performance level,who ever the matcher or process they have.
one matcher company are not gona have some super dooper cell,because they are the ones who matched it.
if you got 500 cells by different matchers,noted the numbers on them then matched them on a same machine,with same parameters etc,i doubt thered be a .15v difference bt all of them.
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Old 08-30-2005, 07:45 AM   #291
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SMC didn't go to 35 amps to hide anything! 35 amps is closer to what your car actually pulls than 30 amps, so this is why we use it. We think it gives a better match. No tricks. No BS.
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Old 08-30-2005, 08:31 AM   #292
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trf racer by using 35 amps it weeds out the cells better. If you take cells at 30 amps with the same numbers and do them at 35 amps some will drop off a bit more than others. In todays racing where motors pull more amps then ever we feel that matching at higher amp rates is better. We did true track testing with Josh Cyrul and other SMC team drivers to come to the conclusion that 35 amps is better than 30.

I think your claim that were hiding something is ridiculous because 35 amps yields lower numbers. The companies hiding something are the ones inflating numbers while claiming they do a true 30 amp discharge.

The way the cells were zapped , cycled and amp rate at which they were matched will have an influence on the way they perform. This difference may not be as big as some would like to believe but there is a difference.
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Old 08-30-2005, 10:01 AM   #293
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35 amps is far more accurate than 30 amps, (or less) for that matter. If you're in doubt, do the math: Cycle your pack, record the data. Then, the next time you race, see what you have for remaining capacity. You now have all the factors to determine your average amp draw.
In some applications, the average is actually higher than 35 amps...
Thanks to Danny at SMC, Steve at TQ Cells, etc; for matching at 35 amps and providing the racing public with cells matched at a rate more closely to what we see on the track. If this progression didn't continue, we'd still all be racing packs matched at 10 amps...
The matchers who utilize the 35 amp discharge actually are acutally hiding something...they are hiding the additional weak cells that 35 amps weeds out...hiding them into stick packs rather than including them into a matched pack if they were matched at 30 amps or less...
Keep up the good work, Frenchy...enough with the 35 amp stuff...bring on the 45 amp matchers...
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Old 08-30-2005, 10:53 AM   #294
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TRFracer- let me add to what has already been stated-

1) You say cells are all the same, so packs from different matchers won't matter no matter what the labels say. First of all, the zapping makes a big difference. If you had the access to enough virgin cells to find 12 that were exactly the same and could then take 6 of them and zap them with (insert bobo zapper name here) and zap the other six with SMC's zapper, then match them you would find the SMC cells to be far better. They might not all still be matched like they were as virgin cells, but they would be much better. Secondly, when you match as many cells as SMC, you are able to use tighter matching tolerances from pack to pack.

2) 35A matching may be hiding something- You gotta be kidding. The honest truth is that SMC went out on a limb by being the first major matcher to do 35A numbers. Think about it from a marketing point of view- if Joe Newbie racer walks up to the counter at Hobby Town and looks at two packs, one says 1.180 & 445 sec and the other says 1.175 & 420 sec but is $15 more than the first pack, which one will he buy? Right, the first one. Unfortunately for him the first one was matched at 30A and the second matched at 35A being a much better pack. You're thinking "well, the real racers know what to look for...". Truth is, a portion of the real racers don't even pay for their batteries, then others only pay cost or get a special price. So until everyone was/is educated on the benefits of 35A matching, SMC is cutting their own throat trying to make a better product for US. If Danny and Jack were using an outside marketing agency to promote sales, what do you think their response would be to this? I can tell you- "so you wanna put crappy looking numbers on the packs and then expect the typical r/c enthusiast (who is statistically a working class person) to purchase them, and then our advertising program looks like a turd just because you want to make the hardcore racers happy?!?!?!?!?! HELL NO!!!!! "

I hope this puts things in perspective a little better for you and others.

And no, I'm not sponsored by SMC- although Danny and Jack have been nice enough to do me a few favors... but it certainly wasn't because I won the Nats!!!
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Old 08-30-2005, 11:34 AM   #295
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trfracer: I think it's fairly apparent that you were trying to throw a minor jab at SMC, and it aint stickin.

I really applaud Danny's efforts in pushing the 35 amp standard. Sure, his stuff is a little pricier than a no-name matcher. But at the same time, I've never had a problem with any of his cells. Contrary to your beliefs, zapping matters. Too little of a zap, no gain. Too much, you fry the cell. It bugs me when guys throw out numbers without really understanding what they mean. If you want higher run time and voltage numbers, then buy some integy cells, since they continue to match at 20 amps. Then again, how many big races have integy batteries won??
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Old 08-30-2005, 11:45 AM   #296
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I just picked up a 35 amp IB3800 pack.
More then pleased with the #'s 420 1.185 1.8ir
Can't wait to see how it performs compared to my 3300's.
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Old 08-30-2005, 11:57 AM   #297
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what do the GP3300 w/35 amp discharge cost???
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Old 08-30-2005, 12:33 PM   #298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkman
I just picked up a 35 amp IB3800 pack.
More then pleased with the #'s 420 1.185 1.8ir
Can't wait to see how it performs compared to my 3300's.
Dude i bought 12pack and not one pack had that number, you must be a team driver.
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Old 08-30-2005, 01:03 PM   #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny/SMC
trf racer by using 35 amps it weeds out the cells better. If you take cells at 30 amps with the same numbers and do them at 35 amps some will drop off a bit more than others. In todays racing where motors pull more amps then ever we feel that matching at higher amp rates is better. We did true track testing with Josh Cyrul and other SMC team drivers to come to the conclusion that 35 amps is better than 30.

I think your claim that were hiding something is ridiculous because 35 amps yields lower numbers. The companies hiding something are the ones inflating numbers while claiming they do a true 30 amp discharge.

The way the cells were zapped , cycled and amp rate at which they were matched will have an influence on the way they perform. This difference may not be as big as some would like to believe but there is a difference.
that is a good idea,but i want you to understand that at no time was i slaging u off.
it was just that certain ppl seeemd to b flaming different matchers,for doing things differently,but it seems you are aswell,.
the way i understand it,all matchers have advantages and disadvantages.
to me,it seems at 35amps it could be pushing a new virgin cell abit too early,were other maufacturers with variable rates,are taking it easy on them.
i find companys like orion,dnt push there cells in the zapping process,so it takes a while to get the best out of them,whilst some others push the cells too much too early,and yes they have good performance at first,but can only do a couple of meetings.
thats wot i meant.its a balance.
see no flaming,just trying to understand.and help,whilst learning aswell.
were all using the same cells,IB3600 and IB3800.
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Old 08-30-2005, 01:07 PM   #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 071crazy
trfracer: I think it's fairly apparent that you were trying to throw a minor jab at SMC, and it aint stickin.

I really applaud Danny's efforts in pushing the 35 amp standard. Sure, his stuff is a little pricier than a no-name matcher. But at the same time, I've never had a problem with any of his cells. Contrary to your beliefs, zapping matters. Too little of a zap, no gain. Too much, you fry the cell. It bugs me when guys throw out numbers without really understanding what they mean. If you want higher run time and voltage numbers, then buy some integy cells, since they continue to match at 20 amps. Then again, how many big races have integy batteries won??
as i said above,i wasnt flaming.
danny does a great job,iam sure his team,hes drivers,hes customers are all happy,iam just trying to learn and help.
i just want to know more,and what company thinking is,because they always come with something we can all try.
ive leart a lot from this thread already today.and danny has explained alot of reasons why,which i think is good.
hell i may even think about trying a few packs from danny.
thanks
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