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Old 05-23-2005, 06:41 AM   #1
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Default Soldering vs connectors!

Ok guys I have heared a lot of people over the years ask wether or not it was necessary to solder the wires directly to the battery vs a connector! Now with tecnology having taken a major leap forwared and better products introduced in the field of connectors ( remember them dang tamiya connector melt downs!) could it be time to maybe not look down upon using connectors. I have personally seen people making the A main at national events using deans plugs.

I am a seasoned veteren in rc circles and was starting to wonder if it is a law that we need to solder because it has less resistance. For motors it might be another issue, but was wanting to get a response from some of the other vets here on using connectors for the batteries.
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Old 05-23-2005, 06:58 AM   #2
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i once had a guy tell me that his plugs had less resistance then a solder joint. then i asked "well how to you hook them to the wires" uummm solder them.. so now you have four solder joints (two per wire, male and female plugs) instead of only two. i do the direct solder thing only because the car looks cleaner and the batteries are easier to store. i'm not good enough to tell the difference of .00000870035 resistance.
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Old 05-23-2005, 07:02 AM   #3
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I do it because i only tape my cells in so they are held a little more secure and there is no chance you can pop a connector out during your TQ run....
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Old 05-23-2005, 07:10 AM   #4
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I use connectors on my setup and the losses from the extra solder joints really dont make a difference. I measured the resistance of a solder joint at work using a high current measuring device and it turned out to be like 8.9 micro-ohms ( 0.0000089). All of the ESC's on the market have a resistance that is several orders of magnitude larger than that. So adding an extra two solder joints will not be noticable. Also consider that batteries have resistances on the order of milli-ohms (1000 micro ohms). You might be able to make a cleaner setup without using connectors, but to me it just isn't worth the hastle. You have to have a soldering iron on all day (unless you use a gun) so the track owner will also pay more for people not to use connectors. You may say that soldering irons are insiginificant compared to chargers and lights, but just consider having 50 people all having 50W irons plugged in all day so that they can make a couple of solder joints per hour! Just my opinion.
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Old 05-23-2005, 07:26 AM   #5
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I run Corally tubes on my cells....always have, always will.

No noticible difference in performance, and I suspect that those who direct solder are actually doing more harm than good by heating the cells every time you put them in/take them out of the car...at least with connectors, you only heat the cell up once.
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Old 05-23-2005, 07:35 AM   #6
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i'm ride with kufman on this one. while, ultimately, i don't think connectors offer more horsepower transmission, i think the losses are negligible, and the benefits of quick connectors can be numerous.

- less heat put to the terminating cells
- easy disconnect if some type of failure happens (ei, chassis shorts cells, motor locks up, etc.)
- minmal chance of burning oneself or vital parts of the car (see jrxs thread )

and yeah, i too have seen a few racers in "the show" at national events using connectors. i've even heard some of them don't solder the brushes to the hoods.
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Old 05-23-2005, 09:25 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seaball
i'm ride with kufman on this one. while, ultimately, i don't think connectors offer more horsepower transmission, i think the losses are negligible, and the benefits of quick connectors can be numerous.

- less heat put to the terminating cells
- easy disconnect if some type of failure happens (ei, chassis shorts cells, motor locks up, etc.)
- minmal chance of burning oneself or vital parts of the car (see jrxs thread )

and yeah, i too have seen a few racers in "the show" at national events using connectors. i've even heard some of them don't solder the brushes to the hoods.
Seaball I know you use connectors! I had to help, but its like kuffman said having to solder all day and constantly heating up the wires and the batteries, that made me wonder is there a real advantage nowadays!

I personally like the corrally style plugs, they have been the ones to show less issues of comming loose then lets say the associated ones. Plus they solder direct to the batteries you'll have two solder points but the mechanical connection should be strong enough to not cause an increase in resistance. So thats why I was curious to hear the vets on this. I know that for years the europeans have used connectors.
I worked as a auto tech for 14 years. When audi, and volkswagon sent me to electronic repair class ( up dated) they taught us of the damage to wires caused by soldering, increase in resistance , and corrosion causing enough of a voltage drop to cause certain components to work poorly.
So this came up the other day when I was watching a kid solder his batteries and hold the iron on the wire what seemed for ever. He basically damaged the wire! After doing this to the same wire after just 1 month of racing, how well does current flow thru it.
VW also says the correct method of attaching the wire via a crimp. Now if the connector had a way to be crimped onto the wire wouldnt it be better then say straight soldering?
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Old 05-23-2005, 10:11 AM   #8
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I've been racing for about 13 years now and used to hard wire everything,but I now use deans connectors on my batteries and only hard wire motors,I've seen absolutly no loss in performance with the connectors,and if you get in a hurry it's better to have forgotten to plug the battery in, than solder it in when you're sitting on the start line.
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Old 05-23-2005, 10:41 AM   #9
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I was using Deans plugs for my racing and managed to get to the A Main, but now I direct solder all of my things. Now... I never have to worry about soldering connectors again, worry about the connectors coming apart (which did happen sometimes).

The main positives are, the car is a hell of a lot cleaner and you can easily put the shortest wires from the speedy to your batteries, and this size of wire will never change between batterys. Also, the plugs can be bulky and unflexible. Obviously, storage benefits are great as well as how your packs fit onto the discharge racks.

If people are worried about constant heat going onto the battery terminals when you are soldering your wires before the race, don't be. All you need to have is a high powered iron with a thick tip. I paid $20AUD for mine and it works great! Also... I'm sure most do this already but some may not, have the bars bent on the + and - terminals so you just solder to the bar and not the actual cell.

I've never looked back from direct soldering. I had my concerns about it and at times it has been a pain (like when AC power is not available, but I'm tryin to source a good DC iron somewhere), but overall I think that its the better solution so ready your iron skills and give it a shot. You'll be surprised.
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Old 05-23-2005, 11:11 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F. Alonso
I was using Deans plugs for my racing and managed to get to the A Main, but now I direct solder all of my things. Now... I never have to worry about soldering connectors again, worry about the connectors coming apart (which did happen sometimes).

The main positives are, the car is a hell of a lot cleaner and you can easily put the shortest wires from the speedy to your batteries, and this size of wire will never change between batterys. Also, the plugs can be bulky and unflexible. Obviously, storage benefits are great as well as how your packs fit onto the discharge racks.

If people are worried about constant heat going onto the battery terminals when you are soldering your wires before the race, don't be. All you need to have is a high powered iron with a thick tip. I paid $20AUD for mine and it works great! Also... I'm sure most do this already but some may not, have the bars bent on the + and - terminals so you just solder to the bar and not the actual cell.

I've never looked back from direct soldering. I had my concerns about it and at times it has been a pain (like when AC power is not available, but I'm tryin to source a good DC iron somewhere), but overall I think that its the better solution so ready your iron skills and give it a shot. You'll be surprised.

F.alonso I understand your point which Is the way I used to think before the course I took. The plain fact also is that even heating the wire quickly makes elements in the wire to change causing resistance to rise. Once you heat the wire its done. Thus Thats why I say if a connector cameout with a crimped end you wouldnt damage the wire. I am sure there are ways to manufacture a connector that wont "accidentally pop off" during a race.
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Old 05-23-2005, 11:27 AM   #11
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I dont see how applying heat to a wire can damage it.... can you explain fully?
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Old 05-23-2005, 11:29 AM   #12
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Default Hmmmmmmm

Hmmmmmmmm
Ide like to hear some more input on this I direct solder but it (may) be a bad thing after all.
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Old 05-23-2005, 11:37 AM   #13
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The main reason I direct solder is because I don't have to worry about the connectors coming apart in a crash. I used to think that just having some slack in the connector wires would fix that, but then I ran into the problem of having so much wire slack that the wire interfered with things like the servo arms, or the connector (Deans) bouncing around, smacking the receiver connections and damaging the small lead wires.

(However, I'm almost forced to look into corally style connectors because of my recent JRX-S purchase.... grrrr.

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Old 05-23-2005, 11:39 AM   #14
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Quote:
When audi, and volkswagon sent me to electronic repair class ( up dated) they taught us of the damage to wires caused by soldering, increase in resistance , and corrosion causing enough of a voltage drop to cause certain components to work poorly.
Im pretty sure hes talking about the WIRES.
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Old 05-23-2005, 11:46 AM   #15
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I can see how the wire would get damaged.. when we heat a wire up with solder on the solder gradually runs up the wire and this might hinder the wires efficiency???

When metal is heated, alot of its properties change. Its conductivity properties could easily change with the heat from a soldering iron.
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