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Old 07-11-2005, 07:00 AM   #181
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Yesterday I run a sphere and vector for the first time

Conditions:
Medium to large size track (12t brushed motors run on a 6.00 gear ratio on average)
Medium grip asphalt - Rubber tires
Extremelly hot wether (more than 35Celsious)
HPI pro4
Old (40 cycles) matched GP3300

I setup the sphere in brushless (obviously) forward and brake mode. I begun with standard timing (2) and the suggested gear ratio (8) on my vector. Tons of power but low top speed for the track. I experimented with timing. The vector decal has timing marks range from 0 to 8. However, the timing ring can move from 1.5 to 9 (beyond 8). Looks like the decal is not aligned properly? So, the factory standard setting is 0.5, not 2? Whatever the case, I increased the timing up to 4 (according to decal) and tried ratios from 8,3 to 7. After adjusting the car and going through 6 full power heats, I came to the following setup: 1.5 timing (decal), which is the lowest I could turn the timing ring to, and 7.34 gear ratio (while 12t brushed run on 6.00 aproximatelly). I noticed that the more I increased the timing (and lowered the gear ratio) the higher temps the motor and the esc would reach. The highest temp reading was 95 celcious on the motor and esc, at timing 4. I didn't dare go any higher than that. 1.5 degrees (decal) at 7.34 gear ratio was temped in the low 70ties (Celcious), which was reasonable. The system also seemed to work better on the track, with this setting. In any case, I couldn't get the car to accelerate as hard as I wanted (and expected). Top speed was a little higher than the top 12t modifieds at the track. Runtime was almost 1 minute more than brushed! I could blame my old batteries for a performance lower than expected. I could also blame myself for making mistakes and not setting up the system properly, and the extremmely hot wether. Next saturday, I'll go to the track again, this time with my racing batts (brand new, matched, gp3700). Hopefully, there will be at least one more brushless guy at the track, so that we can compare our performance with each other and with the brushed drivers. Any thoughts from you? Does anybody have any sphere/neo/vector experience to share?
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Old 07-11-2005, 08:03 AM   #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billtc3
... Any thoughts from you? Does anybody have any sphere/neo/vector experience to share?
I ran the LRP Sphere and Reedy Neo One at the RC Speedway in NC. The track was medium-high traction asphalt, with a track temperature about 140 F (60 C) and ambient air temperature in in the 90's F (~32 C). I was pleasantly surprised in the performance. The combination has really great top end speed and good acceleration. The laptime were consistent from the first lap to the last lap. I ran packs back to back without cooling the motor or esc trying to get it to go into thermal protection mode, but with the heatsink installed and fan blowing on top of the heatsink it never shutdown. I did find it seemed to be slightly more sensitive to the gear ratio than a brushed motor, but when I found the right ratio it felt very good. Running 3300 GP's and that setup, it wasn't lacking any speed compared to 7-10 turn brushed motors and 3700 GP's. It was no problem making run time. I think it's a perfect combination at club racing, since I could concentrate on car setup and not worry about rebuilding the motor between rounds.
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Old 07-11-2005, 08:21 AM   #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ml
Running 3300 GP's and that setup, it wasn't lacking any speed compared to 7-10 turn brushed motors and 3700 GP's.
wow! if that's true, then i must be doing something wrong! anybody else on this???
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Old 07-11-2005, 08:57 AM   #184
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probably batteries. E-onroad is all about batteries.............
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Old 07-17-2005, 12:10 PM   #185
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I saw my LRP Sphere go up in smoke today!

I don't know what to think of that. First of all, it took forever for the thing to be available. They said some components were unavailable for the speedo, no problems with the motor. Afterwards I have the speedo earlier than the motor which I'm still waiting for.

Than some three weeks since I installed my Sphere and was racing with my Novak motor, it simply went up in smoke this morning!

I just raced it some 15 times and approx. 8 minutes before the car did not react to my actions... At a price of 249 Euros and an average driving time of 15 minutes per pack, that makes approximately 1 Euro per minute!

As you might conclude: I WAS quiet happy with the Sphere but right now I feel very, very disappointed. I have had several speedo's throughout the years of which also some LRP's. This is the third LRP going up in smoke for me in some 5 or so years... One was my mistake, but I couldn't help today's and one previous to today's blowup.

Just for your idea: I'm not a beginner. I race since 1991 and became Dutch 4WD champion in 2000 and 2001. Although competition level is pretty low here in Holland, I think it shows I know what electric racing is about.

I gave my damaged speedo to my distributor and I really hope it comes back well and repaired very soon. Honestly I feel much more like getting back my money and buy the Novak GTB when it's available... That one is likely to be available earlier than the Neo-One-takes-forever-motor from LRP

Greetz,
Michael
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Old 07-19-2005, 04:28 AM   #186
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Somerwil, I'm sorry, this was bad luck. I've gone through more than 20 batts with my sphere/vector system, with no reliability issues at all.

However, I'm still not sure that what LRP claims about it's power is true! My system is no way as powerfull as a 9 turn modified. NO WAY! Rpm is like a top end 12t brushed modified and torque is even lower than that. Duration though, is very high, easily 6 minutes with a GP3700, on a very demanding, large track.
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Old 07-19-2005, 04:38 AM   #187
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bill,

Did you use the brushless at the Saturday night race? If yes, it did not seem any faster than the 12 turn motors...
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Old 07-19-2005, 05:09 AM   #188
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Yeah, I did. Like I said, it's only as fast as a 12t brushed, with less torque and higher duration (efficiency). Maybe I should start charging at 7amps (instead of 6), to get more punch (and ruin my batts, eventually)
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Old 07-19-2005, 05:41 AM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billtc3
Yeah, I did. Like I said, it's only as fast as a 12t brushed, with less torque and higher duration (efficiency). Maybe I should start charging at 7amps (instead of 6), to get more punch (and ruin my batts, eventually)
What were the 4 settings that you were using with the Sphere? There are two stock settings and a modified setting. What was your final gear ratio and rollout? I was charging 3300's at 5 A. The speed and acceleration were very comparable to a 9 turn, but the gear ratio was important to get good performance.
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Old 07-19-2005, 06:05 AM   #190
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The settings were 2 (forward & brake), 3 (modified), 1 and 1
Gear ratio 7.02 on rubber tires (touring cars), when 12t brushed modifieds were running on a 5.8 gear ratio on average. What do you suggest my gear ratio should be? I tried ratios ranging from 8.3 (hard acceleration - very low top speed for the track) to 6.8 (too high - the sphere had a thermal shutdown).

Guys, there are motors and motors, for fun, for parking lot bashing and for full blown modified racing. Last saturday I was racing against people with a lot of experience, and 12t brushed motors properly tunned. It was a friendly race, that's why I was allowed to run brushless. Unfortunatelly, nobody else was running brushless, so that I could compare to his performance.

When you (and LRP) say that this system is comparable to a 9t brushed, what 9t do you mean? The kind you run in your backyard / parking lot, or the one that's adjusted for serious racing in a serious track???
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Old 07-19-2005, 06:13 AM   #191
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Good point bill.

The motors we run might be 12 turn but because we run this limit for the past 4 years we all know very well how to get the best out of them. For example the lap times of a 12 turn motor compared to those of a 9 turn motor are very similar. The 12 turn is only by a couple of tenths off in lap times and that is on a race track where the lap is 19 seconds on average.

Thus the 12 turn motors we are talking about are very fast and I am still convinced that the brushless technology is a bit behind in power and drivability..
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Old 07-19-2005, 06:28 AM   #192
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LRP claims that their system outputs 263 Watts. (They also claimed that the Quantum 2 was waterproof). John is there a there a way to test if it's true? On a dyno?
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Old 07-19-2005, 06:31 AM   #193
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I haven't run one yet but, I saw Jon Orr's sphere and neo combination at the Roar Carpet Nats and it was as fast as the guys running 7 turn motors!! Do they have more than one motor?
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Old 07-19-2005, 06:37 AM   #194
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Bill, maybe there is a way, but I am not an expert on dynos. I rearly use one as I always prefer to test under racing conditions.

DJG24
Sorry for asking this stupid question but is Jon Orr's sponsored by LRP? If yes I am sure that what they are using is not what is available. Factory supported drivers always experiment with new equipment, so although it might look identical to the production model it is a different beast inside.
Also that was in 12th scale correct?
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Old 07-19-2005, 06:40 AM   #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billtc3
The settings were 2 (forward & brake), 3 (modified), 1 and 1
Gear ratio 7.02 on rubber tires (touring cars), when 12t brushed modifieds were running on a 5.8 gear ratio on average. What do you suggest my gear ratio should be? I tried ratios ranging from 8.3 (hard acceleration - very low top speed for the track) to 6.8 (too high - the sphere had a thermal shutdown).

Guys, there are motors and motors, for fun, for parking lot bashing and for full blown modified racing. Last saturday I was racing against people with a lot of experience, and 12t brushed motors properly tunned. It was a friendly race, that's why I was allowed to run brushless. Unfortunatelly, nobody else was running brushless, so that I could compare to his performance.

When you (and LRP) say that this system is comparable to a 9t brushed, what 9t do you mean? The kind you run in your backyard / parking lot, or the one that's adjusted for serious racing in a serious track???
I ran a 8.15 ratio on a large track (72' x 150'). I thought the speed was comparable to my 'tuned' 9 and 10 turn modified motors. I've been racing for a few years and have a decent idea on how to tune a brushed motor for serious racing on a serious track. I thought the performance was similar between a brushed and brushless motors. A brushed motor is still faster than a brushless so far, but not by a huge margin. The braking does have a different feel between brushed and brushless. To me the braking is the biggest difference, but the acceleration and top speed are comparable. I don't know if there are any differences between the Vector and the NEO One (I was using the NEO one).
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