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Old 03-11-2013, 07:07 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by JOE SI View Post
My question is what is a trianglular ruler and where can I get one? I will be looking for one everywhere I go but if you can point me in the right direction that would be cool, and what else can be used
Sorry about that, see others' replies above.

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Just because the car is the same weight on both sides front to back left to right on the scale doesn't actually mean it will balance cause one side can have the weight placed further in or out giving the opposite side leverage and cause it to tip, is that correct?
Yes and no. There might be a slight difference in how it reads on scales vs. how it balances when supported from the chassis, vs how it balances when supported from the shock tower. That would depend on how stiff your car is, and how the placement of parts causes it to flex when supported from different points. I've never dug into that aspect of it. I do know some racers that are picky not only about how the car balances, but also the symmetry of the placement of weight on the chassis.

IMO, and I mean no disrespect, if you're asking questions like this, you're probably not at a level where it's going to make a difference by going past basic static left/right balance by whatever means you find simplest, and de-tweaking the car.

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Originally Posted by YZFAndy View Post
Best way to balance a car is a three point setup. One point in the centre line between either the front or rear axle line and then a pair of scales under the end opposite ends left and right wheels. Then reverse the setup and do the other end. This way you measure left to right balance with out measuring uneven springs or tweak. A four scale setup could be measuring uneven rollbars, springs, spring preload, rebound or tweak.
IMO, the fact that the 2-scale / 3-point setup isn't affected by tweak is the biggest reason I'm not interested in it. If I want to balance without de-tweaking, I'll use something simpler like straight balance pins, or holes in the shock tower, or the triangular ruler.

The 4-scale setup shows you tweak, but left/right/front/rear weights aren't affected by it. Tweak will make the cross weights incorrect (seeing that is the whole point of a 4-scale setup). But the total left weight, total right weight, total front weight, and total rear weight should always read the same.

I like the 4-scale setup when working on my bench at home, after moving parts around on the car, because I can get the static weight balance right, and de-tweak it, all at the same time. But they're kind of a pain at the track. After/before a run, I de-tweak the chassis/top deck on droop blocks, then re-set the droop spot-on with a gauge, and then de-tweak springs by simply making sure the wheels at each end come off the board at the same time when lifting from the chassis centerline. Works like a charm.

-Mike
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Old 03-12-2013, 05:30 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by grippgoat View Post
IMO, the fact that the 2-scale / 3-point setup isn't affected by tweak is the biggest reason I'm not interested in it. If I want to balance without de-tweaking, I'll use something simpler like straight balance pins, or holes in the shock tower, or the triangular ruler.

The 4-scale setup shows you tweak, but left/right/front/rear weights aren't affected by it. Tweak will make the cross weights incorrect (seeing that is the whole point of a 4-scale setup). But the total left weight, total right weight, total front weight, and total rear weight should always read the same.

I like the 4-scale setup when working on my bench at home, after moving parts around on the car, because I can get the static weight balance right, and de-tweak it, all at the same time. But they're kind of a pain at the track. After/before a run, I de-tweak the chassis/top deck on droop blocks, then re-set the droop spot-on with a gauge, and then de-tweak springs by simply making sure the wheels at each end come off the board at the same time when lifting from the chassis centerline. Works like a charm.

-Mike
Good luck with that! But we are talking about measuring balance not tweak. If your car is tweaked by the time you come to balance it then you probably are missing a lot of basic knowledge and understanding of car setup. The fact this method doesn't measure other inaccuracies only balance is the main reason professional full scale racers use this system including formula 1.
Unless you can absolutely guarantee that everything on a car is perfectly even,(rebound, rollbars, tweak, balance, front to rear blance, spring preload, suspension friction, front to rear ride hight you name it, it affects it) a four scale system does not work accurately to measure independent corner weight. And how can it be perfectly even if you don't know its perfectly balanced to begin with, that's just common sense!

And as for balance pins or centre holes in shock towers along the centre line of the car they just dont work. Imagine 1kg on the left rear and 1kg weight on the right front. They car will show as balanced but you can see it wont be.

You really should stop shouting peoples advice down if you don't have the knowledge yourself. Give people your own opinion by all means but stop contradicting what me and others are saying like you have several times now because frankly i've seen you mouth off some good advice in several topics now.
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Old 03-12-2013, 08:40 PM   #18
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IMO, and I mean no disrespect, if you're asking questions like this, you're probably not at a level where it's going to make a difference by going past basic static left/right balance by whatever means you find simplest, and de-tweaking the car.

Grip goat you are right I'm only racing of about a year but since I'am new to racing isn't that how I'm going to learn how to do these things to make me a better driver
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