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Old 04-29-2005, 09:30 PM   #31
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The Spektrum with a Futaba 3PK a JR servo on a Hyperdrive Pro2 with Hefty cells and a KC Motor is the best thing since sliced bread!
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Old 04-29-2005, 11:32 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by nimble
DART can have more than 200 radios on at once.
I know very little about this technology, but as I understand it the ISM band is divided into 79 separate and distinct 1 MHz channels? And some channels should be allocated as "bind" channels so, for example, the actual number of Spektrum equipped radios that can be on at once is probably a little less than 79. So I'm curious what method DART is using to get 200?

Also, to clarify, is your built-in transponder compatible with AMBrc or, more likely, is it a transponder that only works with your display system--somewhat like the Alex/Orion lap counter? Either way, nice idea...
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Old 04-30-2005, 12:30 AM   #33
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Default HRS 3PK

NIMBLE
Don`t jump down my throat (just yet)

The HRS system is the fastest one out there at the mo, twice as fast as the ko one

reason i know is i am helping a local speedo company make a new speedo kept on losing calibration from the HRS system checked it on he`s scopey thingy it was twice as fast as anything else
when put into pcm or ppm the speedo was fine , when it was in HRS it couldn`t keep up with the frame rate the HRS was doing

i don`t want it to be slower then the HRS system
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Old 04-30-2005, 02:41 AM   #34
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oh my goodnes... then i'm gonna wait for dart system.. 22 ms is terrible
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Old 04-30-2005, 10:23 AM   #35
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The dart system is explained in their thread. Looking forward for the arrival of the system..........
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Old 04-30-2005, 10:51 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by Exe
22 ms is terrible
Do you know how fast 22ms is? It 22/1000 of one second. That comes out to 45.5 inputs per second. Honestly, I doubt even the fastest most jittery drivers are hitting that many inputs. The fastest servos are running at 7/100 (.07) of a second for full 60 degree transit which isn't even close in comparison to 22/1000.

So how slow is 22/1000 again?
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Old 04-30-2005, 10:59 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by Exe
oh my goodnes... then i'm gonna wait for dart system.. 22 ms is terrible
Not to be mean but if you can tell the difference between 22ms and 8ms your my hero....
ms = 1/1000 of a second.....Blinking took 550ms.....
SO please lets not get into a peeing contest....
Maybe if you are a pro and you can tell the difference between a 1.195 pack and a 1.185 pack then maybe you could tell the difference for the ms range.
Just because one says its faster than the rest is marketing ploy...
It is great that it is faster but you really can not tell.
All of my comments are my opinion and not subjest to your ridicule....LOL
Just my $0.02
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Old 04-30-2005, 11:04 AM   #38
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Id like a spectrum just so i can eliminate people turning transmitters on as a cause of glitching! Cant afford to drop the $$$ on one and i dont know if they do one for the espirit 2 yet?
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Old 04-30-2005, 01:03 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by rctoyguy
The one I am looking at is "new in sealed box" - but how could I find out if it is good - I mean, it could have been sitting on a shelf as a "bad" one for a while.
It's really pretty simple, if it's made for anything other than the Airtronics M8, then it's NOT from the first batch. The M8 ones were the first batch, & were the only ones with any reported problems that Spektrum had to deal with. By the time any of the other versions came out(like mine for KO radios), they had it fixed, so if the one you're looking at is for a JR, it should be fine. The only thing that might be of concern about them is that you should consider what kinds of electronics you have in the car when you get it, there have been more issues that users have had when using ESC's by makers besides Novak(I believe it has to do with the BEC in some of them not being quite as strong, so some combinations of servo, ESC & receiver could result in those problems you've heard about, but I've heard of NO ONE having any trouble when using a Novak ESC, myself included). And btw, if you'll read through the other Spektrum thread, you'll find a LOT more info, including on some of those electronics combos that some had problems with(so you can see if any match your own stuff). And for the record, I got mine a month or a month & a half ago, & it's been absolute perfection from the moment I installed it....
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Old 04-30-2005, 01:48 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by fraz
The fastest servos are running at 7/100 (.07) of a second for full 60 degree transit which isn't even close in comparison to 22/1000.
Comparing the full servo arc to the time between samples is silly. What we'd really want to know for a comparison is how long it takes a change at the controller to make the steering or throttle in the car change. The response time not the arc time.
As for people not being able to notice 45.5hz (22ms) vs , say, 100Hz (10ms) .. How many of you like using 60Hz or slower retrace CRTs?

Making the whole control system faster should be a bit smoother. Not that it matters too much for me - fixing the delays in the driver will do more
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Old 04-30-2005, 02:17 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by Grizzbob
It's really pretty simple, if it's made for anything other than the Airtronics M8, then it's NOT from the first batch. The M8 ones were the first batch, & were the only ones with any reported problems that Spektrum had to deal with. By the time any of the other versions came out(like mine for KO radios), they had it fixed, so if the one you're looking at is for a JR, it should be fine. The only thing that might be of concern about them is that you should consider what kinds of electronics you have in the car when you get it, there have been more issues that users have had when using ESC's by makers besides Novak(I believe it has to do with the BEC in some of them not being quite as strong, so some combinations of servo, ESC & receiver could result in those problems you've heard about, but I've heard of NO ONE having any trouble when using a Novak ESC, myself included). And btw, if you'll read through the other Spektrum thread, you'll find a LOT more info, including on some of those electronics combos that some had problems with(so you can see if any match your own stuff). And for the record, I got mine a month or a month & a half ago, & it's been absolute perfection from the moment I installed it....
M8's have nothing to do with it, because most of the problems were with the receivers. I have one for the 3pk and 2 out of the 3 receivers I bought had problems. Mid-race the steering trim would be way off. The problem is fixed now and it works great.
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Old 04-30-2005, 11:37 PM   #42
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Some simple math shows that each MPH in speed translates into a distance of .0176 inches each millisecond.
At 30mph, a car travels 11.6 inches in 22ms, but only 4.22 inches for 8ms.
That seems significant to me, but what speeds do these cars reach? Usually much much less in most turns, at 5mph, the distance is only 1.9in at 22ms, give or take 1-2 inches is not going to be noticeable in my opinion.

Quite frankly, in my opinion the issue is Spektrum not telling the truth about their response time, not that it is too slow.

But there are cases where the response is very important, high-speed oval racing the cars can be going pretty fast all the time. Onroad gas cars can also have some very high top speeds.
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Old 05-02-2005, 02:40 AM   #43
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I can only judge a system by feel...

I switched my 1/8th rallycross buggy and my Touring car from HRS and PPM respectively, both feel faster than the previous system...

The 5.6ms is the quoted response time from the TX Tranceiver getting the signal from the handset and the servos moving...

Using channels 1 and 2 the "signal" from the handset should reach the tranceiver module in approx 3ms (1.5ms per channel when streamed)...

That should equate to a total response time for a 3PK in PPM mode of approximately 8.6ms....

You cannot add the latency of the PPM module into the total latency figure as this has been removed from the system and replaced by the Spektrum module....

Any module that uses the existing 3PK computer will suffer this delay, however from the way the DART system works it could be theoretically faster...

Nimble is correct that the spektrum/dart system adds 5.6ms to the handsets latency, the issue where we disagree is how much latency is in the handset itself, without looking at the transmission/reception latency... You have to remove that from the overall latency before you add back in the spektrum/darts latency....

Whilst the plug-in module will be slower than the Hardwired dart, using the hardwired dart would mean that you lose the functionality of your 3PK/M8/Mars etc... In fact I have a USB futaba controller for real race here, that would probably work with the Dart hardwired system from what I understand of its workings... The DART system would have to add back that functionality itself.... is that whats happening nimble?

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Old 05-02-2005, 10:54 AM   #44
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Quote:
Whilst the plug-in module will be slower than the Hardwired dart, using the hardwired dart would mean that you lose the functionality of your 3PK/M8/Mars etc... In fact I have a USB futaba controller for real race here, that would probably work with the Dart hardwired system from what I understand of its workings... The DART system would have to add back that functionality itself.... is that whats happening nimble?
yes, the DART Upgrade Kit is a complete transmitter, that has adjustable steering and throttle curves, throttle and brake percentage adjustments, end points, trims, 10 model memory. All adjustments are done using just the trigger and wheel, the wheel scrolls through menus and the trigger/brake selects. Very simple and easy to use. Any transmitter with a trigger and wheel can be upgraded to a DART transmitter. The backlit display will also show the telemetry data from sensors on the car, something a module can't do.

I do apologize our website is not done yet, all these details will be published on the website this week.

Cheers,
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Old 05-02-2005, 11:08 AM   #45
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Default Spektrum

DART this, DART that. Instead of telling us what the Spektrum CAN'T do, start your own thread outlining what the DART system CAN do. Don't tell me how great your new system is, show me, and if it's half as great as implied, I'll have one soon. But until I can see one work, drive it, or hear direct personal testimony from racers, then give it a rest. My personal M8 Spektrum works great, has immediate response time (as far as I can tell), is glitch free, and compact. I wouldn't trade it for a box of synthesized receivers and modules, or a "promised" better system. SHOW ME.
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