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Old 02-23-2013, 10:26 PM   #31
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I wonder if they'd go for 1/12 carpet in Omaha at the Hobbyplex and 1/10 Sedan at the MRO track in Lincoln? It's a one hour drive between facilities. Both have held ROAR Nationals.
This is what I had in mind. You guys and TZ are the only permanent facilities in the country I can envision hosting it.
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Old 02-23-2013, 11:22 PM   #32
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I wonder if they'd go for 1/12 carpet in Omaha at the Hobbyplex and 1/10 Sedan at the MRO track in Lincoln? It's a one hour drive between facilities. Both have held ROAR Nationals.
I'll do anything I can to help get this thought into action Alex. You and Ski would be great.

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Old 02-24-2013, 09:55 AM   #33
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I agree, hobbyplex would be great for the 12th. Not sure if I've seen the other track but 1 hour doesn't seem like that big of a deal.
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Old 03-13-2013, 07:05 PM   #34
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The 1/12 event HAS to be on carpet, otherwise you'll get a very low turnout from European based drivers. Plus it'll be whoever has tyres that work who wins on asphalt (usually the Japs).

If the 2014 worlds is on carpet for 1/12 I will seriously consider making the trip. If it's an asphalt event then I won't even think about coming.
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Old 03-13-2013, 07:35 PM   #35
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The 1/12 event HAS to be on carpet, otherwise you'll get a very low turnout from European based drivers. Plus it'll be whoever has tyres that work who wins on asphalt (usually the Japs).

If the 2014 worlds is on carpet for 1/12 I will seriously consider making the trip. If it's an asphalt event then I won't even think about coming.
So, basically if it's not on your favourite surface you won't go.

We get this type of attitude from club racers all the time. "I don't like high curves." "Astroturf jumps aren't real offroad." "I'm not going if they don't goop it." "Too much traction, the car grip rolls all the time." "Not enough traction - it's too loose." "The carpet has a grain in it." "The track is too short." "The track is too long." "I don't like grass infields." "There's a bump in the straight." "There are hardly any jumps." "The jumps are tricky." "The track is too wide." "The track is too narrow." I've heard all of these and more. Somebody even told me once they wouldn't go because the drivers' stand was too high. And every person has a theory about why each of these conditions is unfair or not in the spirit of racing.

It's exactly this type of attitude that gives the sport a bad vibe. Everybody is ultra picky about what is "real" offroad/onroad/12th/TC/whatever. What I'm at pains to explain to these people is that every track has unique features and its own character. Different surfaces and layouts provide different challenges. Taking on each of them makes you a better driver.

What you're used to isn't the way it is done everywhere. Travelling to different races should be about more than just sleeping in a hotel room to race. It should be about experiencing racing as it is done in a different place. I would think this should go double for the Worlds.

Don't be a surface snob. It's the Worlds! Go to represent your country, to do your best, and broaden your racing experience.
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Old 03-13-2013, 07:50 PM   #36
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So, basically if it's not on your favourite surface you won't go.

We get this type of attitude from club racers all the time. "I don't like high curves." "Astroturf jumps aren't real offroad." "I'm not going if they don't goop it." "Too much traction, the car grip rolls all the time." "Not enough traction - it's too loose." "The carpet has a grain in it." "The track is too short." "The track is too long." "I don't like grass infields." "There's a bump in the straight." "There are hardly any jumps." "The jumps are tricky." "The track is too wide." "The track is too narrow." I've heard all of these and more. Somebody even told me once they wouldn't go because the drivers' stand was too high. And every person has a theory about why each of these conditions is unfair or not in the spirit of racing.

It's exactly this type of attitude that gives the sport a bad vibe. Everybody is ultra picky about what is "real" offroad/onroad/12th/TC/whatever. What I'm at pains to explain to these people is that every track has unique features and its own character. Different surfaces and layouts provide different challenges. Taking on each of them makes you a better driver.

What you're used to isn't the way it is done everywhere. Travelling to different races should be about more than just sleeping in a hotel room to race. It should be about experiencing racing as it is done in a different place. I would think this should go double for the Worlds.

Don't be a surface snob. It's the Worlds! Go to represent your country, to do your best, and broaden your racing experience.
I agree totally. Do away with the "surface snobbery" and hold the entire event on carpet. If done by a proven club in a convention center or a hotel, the event would be spectacular. Or perhaps find a hotel with a large enough ballroom close to one of the existing asphalt tracks. Too bad 301 is gone. That would have made a great venue for tc.
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Old 03-13-2013, 07:57 PM   #37
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So, basically if it's not on your favourite surface you won't go.

We get this type of attitude from club racers all the time. "I don't like high curves." "Astroturf jumps aren't real offroad." "I'm not going if they don't goop it." "Too much traction, the car grip rolls all the time." "Not enough traction - it's too loose." "The carpet has a grain in it." "The track is too short." "The track is too long." "I don't like grass infields." "There's a bump in the straight." "There are hardly any jumps." "The jumps are tricky." "The track is too wide." "The track is too narrow." I've heard all of these and more. Somebody even told me once they wouldn't go because the drivers' stand was too high. And every person has a theory about why each of these conditions is unfair or not in the spirit of racing.

It's exactly this type of attitude that gives the sport a bad vibe. Everybody is ultra picky about what is "real" offroad/onroad/12th/TC/whatever. What I'm at pains to explain to these people is that every track has unique features and its own character. Different surfaces and layouts provide different challenges. Taking on each of them makes you a better driver.

What you're used to isn't the way it is done everywhere. Travelling to different races should be about more than just sleeping in a hotel room to race. It should be about experiencing racing as it is done in a different place. I would think this should go double for the Worlds.

Don't be a surface snob. It's the Worlds! Go to represent your country, to do your best, and broaden your racing experience.
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I agree totally. Do away with the "surface snobbery" and hold the entire event on carpet. If done by a proven club in a convention center or a hotel, the event would be spectacular. Or perhaps find a hotel with a large enough ballroom close to one of the existing asphalt tracks. Too bad 301 is gone. That would have made a great venue for tc.
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Old 03-13-2013, 09:46 PM   #38
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So, basically if it's not on your favourite surface you won't go.

We get this type of attitude from club racers all the time. "I don't like high curves." "Astroturf jumps aren't real offroad." "I'm not going if they don't goop it." "Too much traction, the car grip rolls all the time." "Not enough traction - it's too loose." "The carpet has a grain in it." "The track is too short." "The track is too long." "I don't like grass infields." "There's a bump in the straight." "There are hardly any jumps." "The jumps are tricky." "The track is too wide." "The track is too narrow." I've heard all of these and more. Somebody even told me once they wouldn't go because the drivers' stand was too high. And every person has a theory about why each of these conditions is unfair or not in the spirit of racing.

It's exactly this type of attitude that gives the sport a bad vibe. Everybody is ultra picky about what is "real" offroad/onroad/12th/TC/whatever. What I'm at pains to explain to these people is that every track has unique features and its own character. Different surfaces and layouts provide different challenges. Taking on each of them makes you a better driver.

What you're used to isn't the way it is done everywhere. Travelling to different races should be about more than just sleeping in a hotel room to race. It should be about experiencing racing as it is done in a different place. I would think this should go double for the Worlds.

Don't be a surface snob. It's the Worlds! Go to represent your country, to do your best, and broaden your racing experience.
Very well said. In my opinion REAL racers will race anywhere.
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Old 03-13-2013, 10:24 PM   #39
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Mark is speaking the way it is. Mod 1/12 on asphalt is not popular in very many places and definitely not in the US at the top level. There were fewer than 10 at last year's nats and not enough to run the class the year before. I don't think there has been more than 25 entries TOTAL at the last 5 nationals.

On the international level, 1/12 is a carpet class.
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Old 03-13-2013, 10:45 PM   #40
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1/12th on carpet...fair enough.

How about the other way around? Would a 5-roll carpet track be big enough for TC? I don't think there has ever been a Worlds for TC on carpet, though it is certainly a popular surface for the class. And IFMAR provides for the option.

Is there any part of the world where there is not at least some carpet season for TC? Perhaps not Australia or Southeast Asia...I'm not sure.

At any rate, would it be viewed as a legit offering, and would racers gather from around the world to race TC on carpet for a World Championship? I guess that's the bottom line question. (Assuming a beautiful, friendly host city with direct flight access from Europe and Asia and an otherwise well prepared venue, of course.)
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Old 03-13-2013, 10:53 PM   #41
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If we can hold the entire event on carpet, why not use mikes hobby shop?
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Old 03-13-2013, 11:01 PM   #42
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1/12th on carpet...fair enough.

How about the other way around? Would a 5-roll carpet track be big enough for TC? I don't think there has ever been a Worlds for TC on carpet, though it is certainly a popular surface for the class. And IFMAR provides for the option.

Is there any part of the world where there is not at least some carpet season for TC? Perhaps not Australia or Southeast Asia...I'm not sure.

At any rate, would it be viewed as a legit offering, and would racers gather from around the world to race TC on carpet for a World Championship? I guess that's the bottom line question. (Assuming a beautiful, friendly host city with direct flight access from Europe and Asia and an otherwise well prepared venue, of course.)
Officially, no tc worlds on carpet. Spashett won the ISTC exhibition at a WC in the 90's. 94 maybe? The racing at the ETS carpet events seems like pretty good stuff, and most of the top drivers are generally in attendance. I don't think it would be out of the question to run the tc' s on the rug. I actually think they should alternate surfaces for both classes every two years.
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Old 03-13-2013, 11:43 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by PutAwayWet View Post
1/12th on carpet...fair enough.

How about the other way around? Would a 5-roll carpet track be big enough for TC? I don't think there has ever been a Worlds for TC on carpet, though it is certainly a popular surface for the class. And IFMAR provides for the option.

Is there any part of the world where there is not at least some carpet season for TC? Perhaps not Australia or Southeast Asia...I'm not sure.

At any rate, would it be viewed as a legit offering, and would racers gather from around the world to race TC on carpet for a World Championship? I guess that's the bottom line question. (Assuming a beautiful, friendly host city with direct flight access from Europe and Asia and an otherwise well prepared venue, of course.)
I vote H30!
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Old 03-14-2013, 03:22 AM   #44
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Is there any part of the world where there is not at least some carpet season for TC? Perhaps not Australia or Southeast Asia...I'm not sure.
For information only: there are 3 clubs in Australia who race on carpet. One of them doesn't run 12th scale, one of them doesn't race a TC class faster than 21.5 blinky and has been operating only 6 months, and the other races on carpet squares. There is also a club that races onroad on astroturf. I don't think any of them run TC on rubber. Nobody imports the specialist rubber carpet tyres into Australia. With one exception I can think of in the last decade, all of our 12th and TC Worlds qualifying races have been on asphalt or painted concrete.

Yes, I am well aware this is a poor state of affairs.
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Old 03-14-2013, 05:02 AM   #45
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I prefer tarmac for TC and would only race 1/12 on carpet (sorry if that makes me a surface snob).
However, would I race a TC worlds on carpet? Yes I would, but I it'd have to be an outdoor type layout. TC racing at the top level needs curbs with smooth radiuses, it fits the way the cars work.

In Italy 2006 while it was raining hard, an idea went around about moving the Worlds indoors onto the 1/12 carpet, with a more open layout. I was happy to go ahead with that because having a Worlds was better than not having one.
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