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Old 04-30-2005, 01:05 AM   #16
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Default More setup

70 wght. shock oil in front? Sounds too thick for on road with TO27. If I were you I would use about 45.

One way is known for alot of off power steering. When the weight transfers to the front of the car you get too much steering and the balance of front to rear traction changes too much and rear wants to slide out. Stay on throttle!!!

I think that you will find that car handels better the harder you push through the corner with a one way.

I recommend the Subaru Legacy B4 as a great body for the 415. Hard to get. I had to order from wallawalla from ebay to get some of them. Speedtech carries them but were always out of stock.

Also TO 27 just don't have as much grip as Sorex. How many runs on tires?
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Old 04-30-2005, 01:15 AM   #17
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Hey everyone, a very informative thread, for a novice like me!

I've just started 1/10th tourers, my first meeting was a nightmare with the rear end kicking out and the car spinning, I reduced the droop, and adjusted all the steering rates on my Tx, servo speed, dual rate and exp, this helped a lot ....... next is to adjust the ESC so the car rolls a little on the line!

Thanks for the help, the brake effect off throttle seems to strong when I let of the power, looking forward to trying this out
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Old 04-30-2005, 02:13 AM   #18
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Default Loose rear and spin out in corners

Of course if this situation just happened the first thing that I would check is loose screws, and bent, broken or missing parts. Then check for bent hinge pins and bent blocks on 415.

In your set up you assumed 3mm of droop??? Generally you should know droop and check it as it can change. Proper droop and the same droop on both sides is the norm.
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Old 04-30-2005, 03:05 AM   #19
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Thanks Charles!
yea i use 70wt shock oil at the front cause i did that to my evo 4 and it stopped the rears from stepping out with a 540 motor! so i thought hmm!!! cause i also run the fronts pretty stiff and about staying on throttle yes i have basically tried to learn to drive like that and thought if there was a better way to setup a car to run with a high drag motor. and i cant use a diff as i think i would scrub to much corner speed off, against the other guys with one ways.

about the tyres yes i must admit i have been abit tight and been using practice tyres! and saving the newish sets for race days.

also charles. with kick up is that the front toe block being lifted up? which takes away front grip? as im gonna try the sweep arm setup with (evo 4) "E" block and (415) 1D block. and the evo 4 block is abit higher than the 415 blocks.
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Old 04-30-2005, 03:53 AM   #20
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I think there might be two problems. First one your springs front/rear are way too different. Xray darkblue is 25 lbs the Tamiya yellow is 13.33 lbs. Also I think your dampers are too hard also. The Tamiya cars like about the same springs front and rear and soft in general. I havenīt used the 415 outdoors yet but the EVO3 before and I think regarding setup the EVO3 and 415 are very similar. This was indoors and I donīt see a reason why this should be different outdoors. We also have the same tires as control tires and usually I use the Tamiya blue or yellow springs but always the same front and rear. If you have no blues the Associated silver or blue are working also. The silver is right between Tamiya yellow and blue. Pistons are 3 hole usually and for oil Iīm always going AE 60 or 40 if the track is bumpy.
As rollbars yellow in the front and no for rear.
Rear toe in Iīm using 3° most times 2.5° just for really highspeed tracks.
And I never got the Alfa 2 working on any Tamiya car but this is with a wing cutcown to roofheight. according to our rules.
This setup is used by most of the Tamiya drivers here.

And yes donīt use dragbrake. The stockmotors have a drakebrake effect anyway and I know some people using the throttle trims moved a little to the forward position so the dragbrake effect from the motor is neutralized. This work wonders sometime. There are very few ESCīs like the CS Rocket and Robitronics which have a autorun function what is working for about 2 seconds and this works really good.
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Old 04-30-2005, 04:52 AM   #21
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hey brainteased,

I noticed a similar thing with my PRO2 last race meet - when entering corners off power I was spinning out. I believe I have the more techincal answer for you as I don't think its necesserily a car setup problem.

It turns out that stock motors have more drag brake effect at neutral than other motors, eg modified, because of the laydown brushess overlapping the commutator segments, which basically shorts the positive and negative wires across the motor acting as a brake. To fix this simply file the trailing edge of the brushes (left side of the brush when looking at it from the brushood end) by about 0.5-1.0mm. This should reduce the motor braking effect. It worked for me!

cheers.
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Old 04-30-2005, 06:08 AM   #22
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This may work but I think you also will slow your motor down.
But I really think there is a setup problem. At least as I said already the front springs are way too hard. The 415 has a certain weightdistribution so the same or at least similar springs work the best. Usually on all setupsheets you can see Tamiya yellow or Tamiya blue are used front and rear with rubbertires outdoors. If you want running harder springs in the front than in the rear then try Tamiya blue/yellow or AE Gold/silver or AE Blue/ silver. But the Xray front springs youīre running now are about two times in hardness than the rear ones. Also I think itīs not a good idea running differnt spring brands front/rear as the characteristics are different very often. As you say youīre running on a lowgrip track itīs not a good idea running that hard rollbars. Here usually itīs no bar in the rear and the yellow one or no bar in the front.
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Old 04-30-2005, 09:42 AM   #23
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Default Set up

With a 1way hard springs in fron t can be good and the Tamiya also likes front and rear springs the same. Just something to try.
It really depends on your track surface and driving style/preference.

I agree with V12 that your problem is setup related and not motor. If you have a problem in stock, mod would probably be undrivable.

Rear traction problems, try taking off the rear sway bar. Hard springs in the front should give more rear traction so rear end should be glued. That's what leads me to believe that you may need to check hinge pins and blocks. If one is bent you will never cure rear spinout with setup changes.

One thing that we don't talk about much is radio set up. What radio are you running? Dual rate and end points etc. are very important when you are pushing a sedan. Just a thought.
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Old 05-01-2005, 01:14 AM   #24
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Default rear spinning out

On the Tamiya TRF415 loose in the rear. One thing to check is that you have the right and left uprights correct. On some rc cars the rear uprights are interchangeable but they are not on the 415. Make sure that the left side has an f and so on.
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Old 05-01-2005, 03:47 AM   #25
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hey guys you are right it was setup!!!
but its also driving style that has to be changed!

anyway with the changes i mentioned a few posts back
kick up, front ride height raised 0.5 mm, 0.5 front toe in and 0.5 negative front camber, the car was very settled infact so settled that i couldnt turn in sharp enough but was overall happy with its performance still not to perfection but at least i now know its not the high drag motors that spin you out. so thanks guys!

Charles: i use a KO Mars R with half the adjustments untouched!

but next week im going for a very soft setting with no sway bars at all. soft springs soft oil, 3 hole pistons etc..etc..!! and 6mm ride hieight all round so the car can roll, as right now even though my car is some what settled its not smooth and scrubs and bounces around some corners.
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Old 05-01-2005, 04:17 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrainTeased
hey guys you are right it was setup!!!
but its also driving style that has to be changed!

Charles: i use a KO Mars R with half the adjustments untouched!

but next week im going for a very soft setting with no sway bars at all. soft springs soft oil, 3 hole pistons etc..etc..!! and 6mm ride hieight all round so the car can roll, as right now even though my car is some what settled its not smooth and scrubs and bounces around some corners.
Carfull not to change too much too fast as you won't know what each change does.
I suggest you start off with one change at a time. Run at least ten GOOD laps before you deside if the change helped or hindered. If it helped take a literal note of it. ( I keep a setup sheet handy when doing tests). Once you are satsified your change was helpful than move on to the next change. If the change wasn't helpful than put it back.
Here is what I do.
I put my car to the Manual Stock settings for each track. Than go through the adjustments to help for that track.
Than make a setup sheet for each track...You will notice most PROs and sponcered guys doing this also.
Once you get a good base handling than stop changing and start PACTICING.
This is where you will notice the most performance. Sometimes I won't change from the stock settings and just PRACTICE and that is the best setup.
PRACTICE & GOOD Setup beats most SETUPs and little practice.
Just knowing the track and its layout and its corners makes you faster. Than as you learn the track you can say ok the car has a little understeer and than you can make minor changes to fix that. AND SO ON...
This advice will save you countless hours of tinkering and more time running also if you don't know exactly what is wrong with it, ask someone who is at the track that is fast and ask them to watch do a couple of laps and they can point you in the right direction.
Hope this helps,
Stephen <><
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Old 05-01-2005, 04:18 AM   #27
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Also unless you are running on a very bumpy track I would suggest 5mm ride height all the way around...
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Old 05-01-2005, 04:57 AM   #28
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As a basic setup for the 415 look at Marc Rheinards setup from the LRP-Masters race last year. http://www.rczone.net/files/tamiya/t...nard_lrp04.pdf
this is where I go from for rubbertires on carpet. I just change to the hole#4 on the rear shocktower as this works better for me. This hole is the outer hole on the stock 415 shocktower. Hole #5 was drilled additionally by Marc and other guys and is on the new MS tower. But I never liked this position. For the front I sometimes go out one hole. This setup is really perfect for carpet and should work for all tracks.

For outdoors just change springs to blue or yellow front and rear maybe the shock oil to 40. Maybe you need a yellow roll bar at the front if itīs too much steering for you. But this really should work very well. I think the Tamiya cars donīt need very much setup change for different tracks. Usually I just try #2 and #3 hole at the front shock tower and different bodies as we have controltires and are limited to these. Outdoors I sometimes try different tire inserts also.
As you said now you donīt have enough steering now this is from the very hard front springs.
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Old 05-02-2005, 04:45 AM   #29
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Thanks for all your help guys its been really great

Mr Shookie:
Yes i agree, doing multiple setup changes in one go was a really bad idea as now i have no idea which one gave me the result that i wanted to find out.
I will use a notepad from now

V12 :
thanks for all the setup tips and i race out doors so ill use your advised springs combos and oils and just work with different bodies and inserts etc
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Old 05-07-2005, 08:34 AM   #30
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hi guys just an update!
i've installed back the yellow kit springs front and rear and used 40wt oil all round and reset my front toe and cambers all round to where it was before. only setup i left from the multiple changes was the droop and the kick up with a 0.5 deg wider toe block for the front block.

and notice my car still drives as good without scrubbing in the corners like before with the hard springs..

so for all you guys out there i have a gut instinct that most of the twitchy rear end problem came from the droop settings! i dont know why i didnt play with it in the first place as it seems easy enough to figure out that i was having to much weight transfer at the front making my rear very light which resulted in a very twitchy rear end.

thanks for all the help once again
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Last edited by BrainTeased; 05-07-2005 at 08:40 AM.
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