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Old 07-26-2005, 04:42 AM   #91
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I see one mayor issue on using I.C.C and the Battery Manager :

ICC allow to charge and discharge cells individually ... this means a 6 cells battery pack will be never equilized (some cells will have more capacity then other).

This is fine still you don't try to discharge the pack to the lower limit !

This means using a Battery Manager in cells conditioned by only ICC will cause to have a high risk to put in reverse some cells !!!!

Am I correct ?

e_lm_70
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Old 07-26-2005, 05:46 AM   #92
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no i think it would mean the oposite, that the cells will have a smaller chance of reversing because they all have the maximum capacity in them. And all cells discharge at a slightly different rate also depending on ir. So even charged using the conventional method i dont think they will all dump at exactly the same time
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Old 07-26-2005, 05:54 AM   #93
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NO.
You can trust that there will be no cell reversal. This charger has been researched and developed to the tilt. About never beign equilized...I think you miss the point. Each cell will get its full charge then I believe it will be held there until all cells are exactly the same, hence making the intire pack matched, not only on discharge but also on charge making all those really nice expencive matched packs last longer and have better results.
I remember reading your posts in the BATMAN thread where you were having problems or other issues and now it seems you are attacking Spintec. If you are unhappy with any Spintec item, Return it to Erik he will replace it. There is no better type of customer service than that. Plus from reading your posts it seems that you may not fully grasp the technoligy. If you have a problem with Spintec please address Erik directly and not smear his company here. If the BATMAN or ICC doesn't work than why is the BATMAN one of the most popular items to have in ones pit box?
Sorry if this seems harsh but I don't understand why you are posting the way you are. The types of questions you have asked seem to say that Spintec doesn't make a great product and that you are questioning ever single thing. I just don't understand what you are asking. Please PM Erik with your question that are in direct conflict that you are having and please no more bashing.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e_lm_70
I see one mayor issue on using I.C.C and the Battery Manager :

ICC allow to charge and discharge cells individually ... this means a 6 cells battery pack will be never equilized (some cells will have more capacity then other).

This is fine still you don't try to discharge the pack to the lower limit !

This means using a Battery Manager in cells conditioned by only ICC will cause to have a high risk to put in reverse some cells !!!!

Am I correct ?

e_lm_70
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Old 07-26-2005, 08:21 AM   #94
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I do belive the Spintec Battery Manager is a good product.

At least it look like the unique tool for decristalize cells !

Unluckily it could be better, since the reported number about Ri and Capacity are wrong ... as well the simple relation that is given between Capacity and Seconds it is not reflecting the 35Amp in the manual, but it is just 32Amp !

About ICC , I think it is/will be a great product, but I fear that the BatMan will not match the ICC.

ICC will allow to charge all the cells to their full power ... this could lead that in one cell you are going to put in 3000mAh, in a different one 3300mAh.

Now if you discharge fully the pack on the ICC, still there is no problem.

If you discharge the full pack till the total voltage is 0.85V per cell (Batman case) ... then there are good possibilities that after you have removed 3000mAh in the pack, one cell still have 1.2V (the one charged with 3300) ... while the other is already empty .. ready to go in reverse !

Personally I think 0.85V is quite aggressive cut of voltage for pack that are not equilized ... a 1V would be more safe, and still will do the same job on descistalize ... the final discharge should be left on a equilizer tray or to the ICC.

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Old 07-26-2005, 08:57 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcnewb2004
my guess is $450-$550 since there are so many things that can be considered "new" on this charger. Hopefully my guess is WAY too steep. and erik is nice and make it affordable for us small time racers too.
they told me that ICC has a very friendly price than Turbo35 or CDR5000. About USD.250-300, they don't know the final price. after knowing its price, i start wondering what's advantages that Turbo35 has and ICC don't?
Turbo35 and CDR5000 seens not the same level with ICC
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Old 07-26-2005, 09:19 AM   #96
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i think the batman has circuitry to stop it reversing cells? But tell me if im wrong
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Old 07-26-2005, 10:09 AM   #97
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Mr. Shookie, it will charge dead shorted packs. We have not tested it yet, but we will do that for sure. Probably we are going to implement some 'warm-up' function in it. That's all part of the software that has to grow
No comments on the price You're right, its difficult to set the price level, so we are careful with that.
And thanks

e_lm_70, so you suggest that taking a pack that has been matched by the manufacturer on DIScharge time only will charge each cell nice and equal on a conventional charger? Nobody matches cells on charge time...

John_S, yes it has. Please see the Battery Manager thread on this forum for more on this.
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Old 07-26-2005, 11:03 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e_lm_70
I do belive the Spintec Battery Manager is a good product.

At least it look like the unique tool for decristalize cells !

Unluckily it could be better, since the reported number about Ri and Capacity are wrong ... as well the simple relation that is given between Capacity and Seconds it is not reflecting the 35Amp in the manual, but it is just 32Amp !

About ICC , I think it is/will be a great product, but I fear that the BatMan will not match the ICC.

ICC will allow to charge all the cells to their full power ... this could lead that in one cell you are going to put in 3000mAh, in a different one 3300mAh.

Now if you discharge fully the pack on the ICC, still there is no problem.

If you discharge the full pack till the total voltage is 0.85V per cell (Batman case) ... then there are good possibilities that after you have removed 3000mAh in the pack, one cell still have 1.2V (the one charged with 3300) ... while the other is already empty .. ready to go in reverse !

Personally I think 0.85V is quite aggressive cut of voltage for pack that are not equilized ... a 1V would be more safe, and still will do the same job on descistalize ... the final discharge should be left on a equilizer tray or to the ICC.

e_lm_70
In the process of matching cells....I do noticed that cells with the same discharge time do have different charge time. Therefore, the ICC will charge up all the cells in a matched pack to its full capacity individually like it should. In my opinion, this will maintain the match longer.

One more thing, cells of a 5 minutes race the voltage won't drop to 0.85V per cell . We only bring them down safely with a tray....remember ? ....I suppose ICC discharge function could make the tray dedundant eh. ..........one less equipment to trot around to race.
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Old 07-27-2005, 08:56 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcnewb2004
This is sortof irrelevant, but hey ghostfit, about your 8 AAs do you need "special cells" to do this with?

If not, you got a link to that charger of yours? i am interested in what it can do for my 8 AAs!

And yes,... I am picking up every penny for this charger... eagarly anticipating *drool*... *drool*.....
Nah, just normal Sanyo 2100 Mah, 2300Mah and 2500Mah cells ...nothing special ! use to charge all 8 of them with a normal peak detect charger and found that after 8 - 10 charges, they lost about half their capacity.
After getting the GP charger, the batteries are almost like new after every charge.

Dun have a link but I'll post pics here when I get home from work tonight, promise !
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Old 07-28-2005, 01:23 PM   #100
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Okay, boys and girls, here are the picts I've promised.

Erik, hope you dun mind me posting pictures of "competing" product !
Attached Thumbnails
spintec I.C.C charger-package.jpg   spintec I.C.C charger-topview.jpg   spintec I.C.C charger-openview.jpg   spintec I.C.C charger-leds.jpg  
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Old 07-28-2005, 01:29 PM   #101
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More picts.

They have a webby with specs: www.gpbatteries.com.hk

NOTE: This charger will only work with AA and AAA size batteries !
(Dun blame me when you find that your Sub-C cells can't fit in ! )
Attached Thumbnails
spintec I.C.C charger-compartment.jpg   spintec I.C.C charger-batteryview.jpg   spintec I.C.C charger-details.jpg  
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Old 07-28-2005, 02:11 PM   #102
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Tornado,

discharging at high amps depresses the voltage, when you take the load off the cells the voltage will rise. The traying function will be needed to get everything out of your cells, when you do tray you get more run time (about 25 seconds) don't do this with IB's though, they don't like it.

Chris.
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Old 08-02-2005, 12:47 PM   #103
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BIG OL BUMP
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Old 08-09-2005, 09:41 PM   #104
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I don't think anyone has posted this information about the I.C.C., which now appears on the Spintec web site. Sounds good!

Features:
- Individual Cell Charging and Discharging
- Internal battery locking system with lever
- PC connection
- Firmware user updateable, free download from website
- External output for motor check/run-in, transmitter and stick pack charging, etc.
- Large blue backlight LCD display
- 'Spinclick' user interface: easy rotate and click through menu structure
- Data memory
- I.C.C. function for 4-6 cell packs (cells soldered side-by-side in series)
- Works with any regular 12V power supply

Trying to be patient! Sounds like it will be worth it!
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Old 08-09-2005, 09:54 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crimson eagle
discharging at high amps depresses the voltage, when you take the load off the cells the voltage will rise. The traying function will be needed to get everything out of your cells, when you do tray you get more run time (about 25 seconds) don't do this with IB's though, they don't like it.

Chris.

hi... just like to ask... so you don't tray your IB's ever?
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