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Old 11-07-2006, 07:21 AM   #886
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedpro1
only other thing i found is with high discharge packs i have to put some charge from my turbo 35gfx in the packs or i get voltage errors ..
This shouldn't be a problem with the 1.06, are you sure you have the newest soft ware??
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Old 11-07-2006, 07:28 AM   #887
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it says software 1.06?
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Old 11-07-2006, 07:52 AM   #888
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Originally Posted by dodgeguy
The voltage cut off is a better way to peak than by temp. Temp is a safety cut off.
Agreed .. BUT if the cell temp is going to be above 130 deg F. (as measured by an external source, not the temp displayed on the Spintec) and it hasn't hit the voltage cut-off yet, then i certainly want the charge to STOP !

I charged a 4-cell IB 4200 with 6 amps, 3 mv cut-off, and 120 deg F. temp cut-off. The charge stopped at the 3mv cut-off for each cell, and the temps shown by the Spintec were all 112-120 deg F. -- but when measured with a temp gun they were close to 150 deg. F. !! (and they also felt a lot warmer than 120 F ).

So I'm changing the voltage cut-off (as sugguested by several others here) to 2 mv instead of 3 mv., and I'll play with the max temp so that the cells actually come off at around 120 deg F. for -actual- temps.

This is a - GREAT - charger. I just wish the displayed temps were accurate.
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Old 11-07-2006, 08:13 AM   #889
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Originally Posted by TeamGoodwrench
Agreed .. BUT if the cell temp is going to be above 130 deg F. (as measured by an external source, not the temp displayed on the Spintec) and it hasn't hit the voltage cut-off yet, then i certainly want the charge to STOP !

I charged a 4-cell IB 4200 with 6 amps, 3 mv cut-off, and 120 deg F. temp cut-off. The charge stopped at the 3mv cut-off for each cell, and the temps shown by the Spintec were all 112-120 deg F. -- but when measured with a temp gun they were close to 150 deg. F. !! (and they also felt a lot warmer than 120 F ).

So I'm changing the voltage cut-off (as sugguested by several others here) to 2 mv instead of 3 mv., and I'll play with the max temp so that the cells actually come off at around 120 deg F. for -actual- temps.

This is a - GREAT - charger. I just wish the displayed temps were accurate.
I was having high temps with 3mv. But when I went to 2mv they are just right for me. I can hold them now after the charge

You are correct this charger is very good once it is figured out. I just hope my PCB holds up with the way the connections are.

I would like to see Spintec change to the 0-30 for the cells. I would buy another unit if they did.
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Old 11-07-2006, 08:26 AM   #890
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The temp guns that we use have emissivity settings for steel. Different materials have much different emissivity settings for an ir temp gun.

Unless you're spending the coin for a temp gun with adjustable emissivity you're just stabbing in the dark. Even with an adjustable temp gun you need to know the actual emissivity of the part that you're measuring.

As long as the thermistors that are on the Spintec are touching the cells with a good contact area to transfer the heat they should be very accurate. Theremistors and thermocouples don't care what material they are touching.

IR temp guns are fine for an "A to B" comparison but the cheap guns are nearly worthless for measuring different materials accurately.
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Old 11-07-2006, 08:31 AM   #891
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
The temp guns that we use have emissivity settings for steel. Different materials have much different emissivity settings for an ir temp gun.

Unless you're spending the coin for a temp gun with adjustable emissivity you're just stabbing in the dark. Even with an adjustable temp gun you need to know the actual emissivity of the part that you're measuring.

As long as the thermistors that are on the Spintec are touching the cells with a good contact area to transfer the heat they should be very accurate. Theremistors and thermocouples don't care what material they are touching.

IR temp guns are fine for an "A to B" comparison but the cheap guns are nearly worthless for measuring different materials accurately.

I think this is exactly the issue --

"As long as the thermistors that are on the Spintec are touching the cells with a good contact area to transfer the heat"

I don't think this is a consistent, good contact and that's where the issue is. Also the fan is under the sensors moving air across them. I can tell you that if the Spintec says 110 deg. F, and you can barely hold onto the pack, then there is no way it's 110 deg. F.
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Old 11-07-2006, 08:40 AM   #892
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They do make good contact. Thermistors can be very acurate. But the programing for the display can be inacurate.

Most people do not understand thermal conductivity or emissivity. Have you noticed that the bare metal (bars) is warmer than the heat shrink?


There is not a temp gun for dummies. But dummies use them and they think they are absolute. Not calling you a dummie good wrench. Just the other dummies reading this
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Old 11-07-2006, 08:46 AM   #893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dodgeguy
They do make good contact. Thermistors can be very acurate. But the programing for the display can be inacurate.

Most people do not understand thermal conductivity or emissivity. Have you noticed that the bare metal (bars) is warmer than the heat shrink?


There is not a temp gun for dummies. But dummies use them and they think they are absolute. Not calling you a dummie good wrench. Just the other dummies reading this
Hah ha.. no offense taken dodgeguy -- I know what you are saying. You are right -- there could be software issues that are causing the temps displayed not to be accurate. I was making the assumption that a $400 charger would have accurate software and that this probably was not the issue. I certainly could be wrong on that point.

But ... throw away the temp gun for a minute... if you can hardly hold onto the pack, there is no way that the temp displayed on the Spintec of 120 deg F. can be right. Agreed ??

P.S. -- not trying to put anything or anyone down here... I just like to understand the "why" of these kind of things :-)
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Old 11-07-2006, 08:49 AM   #894
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Do they make good contact? because I was thinking... if i had 6 cells each being +/- 1 mm off.... that would already make it difficult for the sensors to touch... i have a icc... but i do think that getting 6 thermal sensors to have good contact w/ so many packs and for them all the fit snuggly... is a bit of a difficult thing to do...

I have a temp gun that can adjust the emissivity... but which emissiity is best suited for the task at hand? I want to get good numbers that are actually realistic and useful, (while i am still a newb, i would still like to get good numbers when i can)
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Old 11-07-2006, 08:54 AM   #895
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Next time I use the microwave and make some soup. I will temp gun the soup and check it. I do not know what 120F fells like off hand. I may have to add an ice cube to it if is 130f

But really I think you should be able to hold the pack at 120. But meat should be fully cooked to 165 all the way thru.
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Old 11-07-2006, 08:56 AM   #896
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My interface cable finally arrived today, so I'm pumped about updating mine to the new version 1.06 tonight
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Old 11-07-2006, 08:58 AM   #897
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I have been bugging my shop owner to get one in for me. They are on back order. But he did have one of his own that he is going to let me use to get the lattest update at least.
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Old 11-07-2006, 08:59 AM   #898
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
The temp guns that we use have emissivity settings for steel. Different materials have much different emissivity settings for an ir temp gun.

Unless you're spending the coin for a temp gun with adjustable emissivity you're just stabbing in the dark. Even with an adjustable temp gun you need to know the actual emissivity of the part that you're measuring.

As long as the thermistors that are on the Spintec are touching the cells with a good contact area to transfer the heat they should be very accurate. Theremistors and thermocouples don't care what material they are touching.

IR temp guns are fine for an "A to B" comparison but the cheap guns are nearly worthless for measuring different materials accurately.
One very important thing you guys are failing to realize is that when companies like SMC, Br00d, Kwik, Express, etc tell guys there batteries should come off the charger at 120-130 degrees we are all checking them with these :nearly worthless" temp guns...NOT a 3000.00 temp gun or thermistor in a Spintec charger.

I had a spintec charger and found the samething. IF you set it to 125 degrees the packs were WAY to hot to hold. And when you checked them with our "Nearly worthless" temp guns they were 150-160 degrees!! That is why cells Vent and matchers get screamed at!!

EA
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Old 11-07-2006, 09:03 AM   #899
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EAMotorsports
One very important thing you guys are failing to realize is that when companies like SMC, Br00d, Kwik, Express, etc tell guys there batteries should come off the charger at 120-130 degrees we are all checking them with these :nearly worthless" temp guns...NOT a 3000.00 temp gun or thermistor in a Spintec charger.

I had a spintec charger and found the samething. IF you set it to 125 degrees the packs were WAY to hot to hold. And when you checked them with our "Nearly worthless" temp guns they were 150-160 degrees!! That is why cells Vent and matchers get screamed at!!

EA

Very true -- SMC is putting that on the instructions with their packs -- it says "if you have a temp gun" ... etc. etc. I'm sure the assumption is a temp gun like the $100 Raytech or similar.
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Old 11-07-2006, 10:02 AM   #900
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proper emissivity on my near worthless temp gun anyone? Is the v1.06 really effective in stoping voltage error issues?
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