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Old 05-06-2005, 07:45 AM   #121
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Originally posted by speedxl
Dude start driving around some more because you missed a lot of stuff.

12 scale is big here in florida also we are getting more newbies everyday.
Poeple have gotten tired of touring and 12 scale is on the rise!
Bet you Fifty dollars at the roar nationals here in Florida there will be at least 50 12 scales racing! By the way we run asphalt!
Here on the eastcoast and midwest we still race 12 scales!

Hate to tell you buddy but they get waaaaaaaaaaay more 4wd buggies than that at the cactus classic and its considered a small turnout.....50 may indeed be awesome for one class at a club race but i dont care about seeing your club race in a magazine.
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Old 05-06-2005, 07:49 AM   #122
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Originally posted by koabich
Totally incorrect statement. The problem is that all cleaner technology that currently exists today is NOT viable (not talking about hybrids here).

You cannot force companies to adapt a technology that does not exhist or is still in the developement phase. And besides, a very small percentage of the population wants that technology right now. The manufactures can adopt it but what if no one buys it and then what happens to all the gas cars currently on the road? You just cannot stop selling gas and you cannot force people to buy new cars.

Plus if you remove oil from the equation, you might notice that the enitre world ecomony would fail since every ecomony in the world is based on oil!

Back to the point, I am mixed in my decision as to weather or not a manufacture should be on the board. Ideally, the board should be mixed: a couple people form different manufactures (to help keep it balanced so one manufactures deccision does not hurt another) and several form outside the industry or even some racers or race promoters.

If you look at the people who sit on the board of major corporations, you will notice that very few if any people on the board actually work for that company. The board of companies usually always consists of those from outside the company and those from outside the indusrty in question.
the technology is there...just because you dont know about it doesnt mean it isnt there....

and the only reason the world economy would fail is because we as a people have let the oil companies run the sh!t for so long THEY are the ones who make up the rules.....
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Old 05-06-2005, 10:06 AM   #123
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Originally posted by speedxl
I understand cali is as you say Derek. But even at the big events on the east coast, even the big factory hot shoe still race them. Baker , Kinwald, Toso, Lameux, Doseck, Orr, And black stock to name a few in europe they still run the cars with huge turnouts as well as in japan. They still get over 150 entrants to some of these events. Dang they still race pro ten and hold national events that draw over 120 entries.
At the world level they still run it granted at the worlds here the entry list was small but hold the event in europe, or asia and everything changes,
You guys may not be forcing nitro. But if thats all that you show, then that is what the people will only see.
There may not be a ton of new products outthere, but there have been new cars introduced a whole slew of conversion kits parma got back into tires for RC, Calandra has some new cool stuff. Take a couple hours surf the product lines of the guys that make pancar stuff and you will see there is quite a bit of new products out there.
When they still make cars and introduce new stuff it may not be as fazed out as you make it!


Plus derek I dont think we are arguing!
I look at it as if we are just giving our own opinions. I still read XRC its a favorite. I will be at the reedy in may. Maybe we all can sit down and have a beer and have a laugh about the internet.

The beer is 100%

But realize that there are lots of little and big companies that don't take the time to promote their new stuff to any of the media outlets. In RC we have two forms of exposure. Magazines and the internet. It baffles me if these companies want to get more exposure they aren't media whores trying to get some press at every opportunity. And I know what you say when a races gets 120 people, but you have to realize when a class is small that makes the big races more important. So when you have a big "pan car race" and get 120 people you probably have 50% of the peope involved. When you do something like off road and at a local club race you get 120 people you see a huge difference. 120 on a national level is poor.

Also, I always offer my opinion. It's not arguing but this is my job. I can offer an view that few other people get to see. I talk to the manufacturers, they ask me about things and I ask them. I race at a local level, talk to the factory drivers and cover races Nationally and internationally. I don't know too many other people that have the view from where I sit. And that's not saying that other peoples opinions aren't valuable, but realize where my opinion is coming from.
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Old 05-06-2005, 10:36 AM   #124
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I finally got my magazine today and read the article. I've alot of this for a long time. Somethings were new and I got to see he's mad about the Carpet nationals. I don't blame him. I've had the opportunity to sit an talk with many of the big guys of RC. I know it's my hobby but it's there business.
The things I've see at many big ROAR races and the old Lake Whippoorwill Days- I still remember. On some subjects I wish I could say more but at this time I won't. I will say we do have ONE member on the Ex.Comm that is electric.
I'll probably have alot more to say in afew weeks.
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Old 05-06-2005, 10:44 AM   #125
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The beer is 100%

But realize that there are lots of little and big companies that don't take the time to promote their new stuff to any of the media outlets. In RC we have two forms of exposure. Magazines and the internet. It baffles me if these companies want to get more exposure they aren't media whores trying to get some press at every opportunity. And I know what you say when a races gets 120 people, but you have to realize when a class is small that makes the big races more important. So when you have a big "pan car race" and get 120 people you probably have 50% of the peope involved. When you do something like off road and at a local club race you get 120 people you see a huge difference. 120 on a national level is poor.

Also, I always offer my opinion. It's not arguing but this is my job. I can offer an view that few other people get to see. I talk to the manufacturers, they ask me about things and I ask them. I race at a local level, talk to the factory drivers and cover races Nationally and internationally. I don't know too many other people that have the view from where I sit. And that's not saying that other peoples opinions aren't valuable, but realize where my opinion is coming from.
Having Said that maybe the magazines should try hosting some events such pan cars. In the uk off road is being kept alive by the magazines hosting the events.
Magazine are also a very efficient way getting drivers and track to run a pan car series due to the amount of media coverage you can give it. Maybe one should look at hosting an event or two if you can get the enough driver entrants intrested.
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Old 05-06-2005, 10:44 AM   #126
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I'm glad you explained that....I certainly COULDN'T have figured that out on my own.

The pancar demise is due to several things, the main factor being the touring car. Off-road can't really be compared with pancars, the only exception being the off-road 4wd class having its rise and fall. So maybe a better comparision is 1/12th vs. 4wd off-road.

Thanks for your opinion but remember....that's all it is.

While we're at it.....back in 1999 I had several discussion with EP on TT about his belief of how often new cells should be released. What he told me his beliefs were and what Trinity actually did was not even close. Let me just say that I believe running a governing ruling organization and running a business for profit is a complete conflict of interest. Suggestions of rule changes, new ideas, timely release of products and anything benefiting the racer should be welcomed BUT not the manufactures having anymore of a say-so than a proposal.
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Old 05-06-2005, 11:26 AM   #127
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Congrats on a great article/interview with Ernie P., I though the questions were tough questions like asking Ernie why some people have a negative opinion of him. As for Ernie spinning it into something possitive about him well xtreme cannot control the answers, thats why its an interview. I though Ernie actually had a lot of good ideas going on making racing more popular. I know people say they get 100 or so entries for thier big race and so on but if its basically the same 100 faces showing up different races that can't be good for manufacturers' or the industry in general.

I think the manufacturer's should step up and get together hold exibition races at large events like the RCX show coming up in Anaheim.
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Old 05-06-2005, 11:29 AM   #128
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Quote:
Originally posted by ASM
I'm glad you explained that....I certainly COULDN'T have figured that out on my own.

The pancar demise is due to several things, the main factor being the touring car. Off-road can't really be compared with pancars, the only exception being the off-road 4wd class having its rise and fall. So maybe a better comparision is 1/12th vs. 4wd off-road.

Thanks for your opinion but remember....that's all it is.

While we're at it.....back in 1999 I had several discussion with EP on TT about his belief of how often new cells should be released. What he told me his beliefs were and what Trinity actually did was not even close. Let me just say that I believe running a governing ruling organization and running a business for profit is a complete conflict of interest. Suggestions of rule changes, new ideas, timely release of products and anything benefiting the racer should be welcomed BUT not the manufactures having anymore of a say-so than a proposal.

When do I offer anything but my opinion. Prove me wrong.
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Old 05-06-2005, 12:11 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally posted by losi jon
derek-we get like 7 1/12 scale racers at our track so it must be HUGE everywhere else across the country too...why arent you there covering it......
Ahhh, we only get seven 12th scales at my track in Cali, so it must be a dead class.... Blah, blah blah. Cali is far from the center of the Universe. It's more akin to hell. It's okay though, pretty soon nobody'll be able to run Nitro out there. I heard that there's legilastion on the way for Trackside Emissions testing.....
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Old 05-06-2005, 12:17 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally posted by losi jon
Hate to tell you buddy but they get waaaaaaaaaaay more 4wd buggies than that at the cactus classic and its considered a small turnout.....50 may indeed be awesome for one class at a club race but i dont care about seeing your club race in a magazine.
I bet we get more 12th scales at Cleveland than 4wd buggies show up at The Cactus and The Roar Nats combined.
The biggest Race in the World draws Oval and Roadcourse pancars in great numbers, and we get quite a few 12th scalers at the second biggest race in the World too. It's not dead, but it is a smaller class. Calandra's not going outta business, and he doesn't manufacture TC's or Trucks. It's still alive Ladies, sorry you left-coasters don't see it.
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Old 05-06-2005, 12:28 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally posted by CypressMidWest
I bet we get more 12th scales at Cleveland than 4wd buggies show up at The Cactus and The Roar Nats combined.
The biggest Race in the World draws Oval and Roadcourse pancars in great numbers, and we get quite a few 12th scalers at the second biggest race in the World too. It's not dead, but it is a smaller class. Calandra's not going outta business, and he doesn't manufacture TC's or Trucks. It's still alive Ladies, sorry you left-coasters don't see it.
I'm not sure the point of this, but try throwing a 1/12-scale only race or 4WD and see how that turns out. It's sometimes deciving when you go to a race with classes that aren't as popular. Sometimes you run every class for more track time. But the test is if it can survive on it's own.

Most people aren't arguing if 1/12-scale is fun or "going out of business"
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Old 05-06-2005, 12:29 PM   #132
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Originally posted by DerekB
We follow industry trends and what's hot in the hobby.
Since this is the case, I wouldn't expect to see any 1/8th on-road, or 1/5th scale stuff in the magazine either.

Perhaps you should consider dropping reviews of kits since they are SIGNIFICANTLY less popular than their RTR counterparts? Hell drop electric coverage altogether, because according to EVERY magazine I pick up Nitro is by far more popular than electric.

Nationwide, I understand that 12th scale is a smaller class, The Market is smaller in the Midwest though, so I guess my perception is tainted by the fact that in my segment of the country 12th scale is almost as popular as everything but Touring Car.
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Old 05-06-2005, 12:35 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally posted by DerekB
I'm not sure the point of this, but try throwing a 1/12-scale only race or 4WD and see how that turns out. It's sometimes deciving when you go to a race with classes that aren't as popular. Sometimes you run every class for more track time. But the test is if it can survive on it's own.

Most people aren't arguing if 1/12-scale is fun or "going out of business"
I know this Derek, the point I'm trying to make is that it has survived and is growing. A comparison was made between 4wd and 12th scale, neither of the races I mentioned were 12th scale only races. Cleveland also features Touring Cars, and the Snowbirds has more classes than ANY other race in the world. So I don't think that comparison is outta line. Plus I bet there are just as many Cats who just run 4 wheel for track time as there are that run 12th scale for the same reason. Gimme a break. And as far as the small number of 12th scale kits on the Market, I think we all know there are more 12th scalers than 4 wheel buggies to choose from.
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Old 05-06-2005, 12:56 PM   #134
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Back to work Ian.................................
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Old 05-06-2005, 01:37 PM   #135
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Originally posted by CypressMidWest
Since this is the case, I wouldn't expect to see any 1/8th on-road, or 1/5th scale stuff in the magazine either.

Perhaps you should consider dropping reviews of kits since they are SIGNIFICANTLY less popular than their RTR counterparts? Hell drop electric coverage altogether, because according to EVERY magazine I pick up Nitro is by far more popular than electric.

Nationwide, I understand that 12th scale is a smaller class, The Market is smaller in the Midwest though, so I guess my perception is tainted by the fact that in my segment of the country 12th scale is almost as popular as everything but Touring Car.

Except, where is all this 1/8 on road and 1/5th scale stuff you're talking about. In the past 2 years I can remember 2 1/8 onroad reviews, (maybe 3) and 2 1/5th. We've also review the latest 1/12 scale cars that come to us. I can't tell you how many times I've said to Frand and Bruce to send a kit in for review. Those who advertise and send kits to us make it almot 100% that you'll see that kit in a review. So when you're looking to blame somebody start with the company. It took me a year and a half to get a Custom Works oval car. 2 years of asking for the Carpet Knife, and so on.

If you want to just continue to be angry arguing guy I'm not sure I want to continue discussing things. release the anger my friend, this is part of the attitude of RC in general...all the hate for every other class.
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