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Old 08-13-2002, 10:54 AM   #91
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Aren't you guys getting a bit touchy!

Manticore is actually being downright rude and illmannered.

You are quite right in quitting Manticore, for if you can't keep up a simple discussion, and can't tolerate anyone disagreeing with you, then your place is not in this thread.

Just answer this last question before you quit, as you are suggesting others do.

If the TC3 is not so superior, how come that in every race report you read from races all over the world, including club races, there are always more TC3 in the A main than any other car.

Is it just a coincidence. It can't all be down to the drivers.

I think there is one thing we are all in agreement with. I am sure we all agree that David Spashett - world champion so many times, and Masami Hirosaka - World Champion 13 times rank probably among the 5 best drivers in the World. So by your arguement that the car doesn't count for much and it's all down to the driver, will you please explain to me why Spashett's performance at the Euros and Masami's performance at the Worlds were both so disappointing.

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Old 08-13-2002, 12:39 PM   #92
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nnick - I wasnt racing in Madrid, so I guess that explains why I didnt do so well Barry only raced the nitro class so it was up to Graig and Billy to win the electric class...

IMO it's the driver too, not the car, if your car is perfect that doenst make you win. Alltho you cant win by driving with a wooden shoe with wheels either..

And about the cells: All GP, Powers and Yokomo cells are made by the same company, they just have different plastics on them so I guess no team had the upper hand in Euros by using stuff that was not available for others. Orion even sold the new batt's at the trackside.

//juho
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Old 08-13-2002, 12:53 PM   #93
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Ok, I've been reading this thread since it was created and I think it's about time for me to point out an important thing everybody seem to be missing.

I think most cars are competitive in the right hands. I, myself have a TC3 and love it, but I know other cars are good too. What makes the difference is the drivers ability to adjust his car for his very own driving style. This is what Associated is good at, teamwork.

From what I've heard, at important events they usually work in pairs with similar driving styles or in pairs which they know work efficient together. Then they have a team manager who distributes useful information between all the AE drivers. For sure you need a good car to win the worlds and you need to be a top level driver, but let's not forget the team work. It's in my opinion equally important.

Don't you agree?

Feel free to get angry at me if you aren't able to discuss.
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Old 08-13-2002, 02:55 PM   #94
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I couldn't agree more with Airwide. My feelings exactly. I can't disagree that Associated has great TEAM and team effort together with driving skills and car gives you wins.


juho:
I saw in home video the race. Great race, great win!! My congratulations (even though you drive a TC3 )
Anyway regarding Madrid as I said I didn't know if you were running (and I must say that when I didn't see you not even in the first 10 I was suprised) I only said that to make the point that car isn't everything. I have a friend that had TC3 then Yokomo and there were times he didn't even make A Final. When he bought Tamiya's he won 2 races out of 3 (on the 3rd was 2nd)!!!! That means that Tamiya is better than TC3 or Yokomo? NO! It only means that Tamiya suited him best, and for him Tamiya's car is the best



Have Fun

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Old 08-13-2002, 08:21 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally posted by johnbull
Aren't you guys getting a bit touchy!

Manticore is actually being downright rude and illmannered.

You are quite right in quitting Manticore, for if you can't keep up a simple discussion, and can't tolerate anyone disagreeing with you, then your place is not in this thread.

Just answer this last question before you quit, as you are suggesting others do.

If the TC3 is not so superior, how come that in every race report you read from races all over the world, including club races, there are always more TC3 in the A main than any other car.

Is it just a coincidence. It can't all be down to the drivers.

I think there is one thing we are all in agreement with. I am sure we all agree that David Spashett - world champion so many times, and Masami Hirosaka - World Champion 13 times rank probably among the 5 best drivers in the World. So by your arguement that the car doesn't count for much and it's all down to the driver, will you please explain to me why Spashett's performance at the Euros and Masami's performance at the Worlds were both so disappointing.

Regards

Joe from sunny Malta.
Sorry, I dont talk with a stone! simple and straight !
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Old 08-13-2002, 08:38 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally posted by johnbull

If the TC3 is not so superior, how come that in every race report you read from races all over the world, including club races, there are always more TC3 in the A main than any other car.
Joe,

Your world seems to be limited to the USA. In Singapore, there are probably only 2 TC3s that actually run in local races. I also BELIEVE that the TC3 is NOT too popular in other parts of Asia as well.

Every car has its failings. If TC3 is so superior, how come there WAS a batch of left and right rear hub carriers that had unequal amounts of toe-in? If the TC3 is so superior, how come the the arms broke like cookies? If the TC3 is so superior, but why isn't it EVER the World Champ? Judging from the way you are praising it, the TC3 MUST BE filling the top mains and winning EVERY race, EVERYWHERE!

And about design copying, If you look in the tips section of the Corally USA's site, where did they get the idea of adjusting the wheelbase of their touring car from? How about the part to simplify the removal of the rear arms? And what about the rear camber link of the C4.1? Isn't that considered copying too?

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Old 08-13-2002, 08:59 PM   #97
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nnick: i hope you dint get me wrong when i posted the results of the Spanish Reedy. Like i said i just put that to spice things up in here .... hehehe obviously it did! i just noticed that you addressed me in one of your posts so i hope you dint get me wrong. im actually one of those who believes its a combination of driver and car. one without the other simply wont win races. johnbull, manticore, you and all the rest have their opinions and i can actually agree with some points made by each of you.... ... but the battery issue raised earlier IMO is just an excuse.

juho: congrats on the win at the euros! nice to see you here. ive recently aquired a TC3 and im working to get it hooked up real good. offhand the car is awesome - its easy to drive agressively. hope to see you around the rctech more often. it might get to the stage where i'll be torn between that car and my XXXS!
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Old 08-14-2002, 01:13 AM   #98
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roborat: I didn't get you wrong on the previous post, if you remember I said "johnbull, roborat, everyone"

Anyway, I also agree to some of your points but I disagree that batteries doesn't make any difference! It all depends on the level of compettion if two "packets" (driver, car) are equal then every thing that's different matters ie batteries.

Worlds, Euros, etc where the competition is at its highest batteries are more or less equal and itsn't part of the equation. On the other hand, locally, batteries can give huge advantage to some people! At the 8th were we will have a national race, I've heard, a guy will play with the new 3300. Imagine me and everyone else trying to keep up with him!! If you will say, buy those cells too, I'll say that I can't afford to buy 6 battery packs every 4 months (like he does) just becuase companies lanch better batteries all the time!!

My thoughts

Have Fun

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Old 08-14-2002, 01:16 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kenneth Tan

Joe,

Your world seems to be limited to the USA. In Singapore, there are probably only 2 TC3s that actually run in local races. I also BELIEVE that the TC3 is NOT too popular in other parts of Asia as well.
Actually, Kenneth, his world is more limited to Europe (where he is writing from and commenting about. . .) and mine is limited to the USA (where I am writing from and commenting about) and yours seems limited to SE Asia (where you are writing from and commenting about) - we all can only see what we can see (duh. . . )

Quote:
Every car has its failings. If TC3 is so superior, how come there WAS a batch of left and right rear hub carriers that had unequal amounts of toe-in? If the TC3 is so superior, how come the the arms broke like cookies? If the TC3 is so superior, but why isn't it EVER the World Champ? Judging from the way you are praising it, the TC3 MUST BE filling the top mains and winning EVERY race, EVERYWHERE!
Perhaps not winning every race, everywhere, but if you look at the listings of the A-Mains in a majority of races (I point to ROAR and Norrca since they are in the USA, where I am writing from and commenting about) they do fill about half of nearly all A-Mains.

The hubs are a problem, yes. Dumb thing, but fixable. The arms were only fragile if you hit things hard with them - the only arms I ever saw that didn't break were from HPI (flexible) and the old old Yok YR4 arms (completely solid) - and neither of these cars show up in A-Mains anymore. . .you tell me. . .

Quote:
Kenneth
Just my two cents, but I think that the car is integral, although a great driver can drive just about anything. A great driver driving a great car will beat a great driver driving a merely good car, barring luck.
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Old 08-14-2002, 01:23 AM   #100
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Nice to see you in here Juho!
Can't see too many of the flying Finns in here usually.
Onnittelut vielš mestaruudesta!
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Old 08-14-2002, 03:20 AM   #101
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Hi guys. Greetings from Malta.

Juho. Congratulations on a great win. It must be great to be winning such illustrious events, with previous winners such as Spashett. Well Done.

Boomer, you have hit the nail on the head! I couldn't agree with you more. How anybody can say it's only the driver that counts - without wishing to discredit Juho in any way.

I follow mainly the European scene, and the American scene, and in both those there seem to be constantly more TC3s than anything else in the "A", probably for the very valid reasons given by Airwide, where big events are concerned.

Airwide, your contribution makes a lot of sense too. As for cars doing well in the right hands, I have the biggest example myself. I race a Yoke Special. My son races a TC3. If anything my car is probably prepared better than his, simply because I spend more track time driving and fiddling than he does. Yet in any 5 minute race he will lap me at least once. Swap cars and he will probably do the same. But then my excuse is that there is such an age difference....and I'm sticking with it!

Indeed a World class driver, without a world class car without world class cells doesn't have a hope, just as the best car without a first class driver and without first class cells doesn't.

Clearly Juho is World class, as is his car, and for that matter all his equipment. Or at any rate, they got it all spot on at the Euros. Well done to them.

NNick. Our club solved your battery problem at it's recent AGM. We took a vote and agreed that for the coming season we will keep to a cell limit of 3000. The reason was just as you said - to keep those guys who don't mind blowing money like it's going out of fashion, in check. In every other aspect we run to international touring car rules.

I had a word yesterday with Constant Paul - boss of Corally, about some of the comments on this thread. I understand he follows it too occasionally. We had quite a laugh. But he's not letting anything about the new car yet, though with a result like the Euros, who needs a new car. Interestingly I understand Yokomo are planning their new car along the same lines - gear driven rear and belt driven front. I suppose we could take this to the extreme and say they are copying Kyosho. My first Kyosho - God knows how many years ago, was like that. Does anybody have any more information?

Glad to see such an international flavour in this thread. Keep it going boys.

Regards

Joe from sunny Malta.
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Old 08-14-2002, 03:40 AM   #102
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Hi Bommer,

Actually, I didn't know really where he was writing from, but now we all know where his scope certainly is. My point was that what car was winning races in your own locality doesn't mean that it would do the same in other parts of the world.

Just a question though, are there actually more people driving TC3s than other cars in USA? If so, it might not be surprising why TC3s are flooding the top mains in races.

I remembered that when TC3 was launched, there was a significant amount of ranting around (i could have seen it on the AE site) about the cookie arms, much more than any car around at that time. So you have to fix the angle of the rear hubs to get it pointing at the right direction? Haha!

Okok... my point was that any car will have its own faults, and some may have their own personal agendas to blow the faults (copycat, c-mainer, poser) of certain cars to humongous propotions. The situation is so apparent: I sell corally, T1 is launched and it looks like corally. Let's hate T1 together!!!

Bottom line: I hate the Pro 3.
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Old 08-14-2002, 05:05 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally posted by johnbull
Boomer, you have hit the nail on the head! I couldn't agree with you more. How anybody can say it's only the driver that counts - without wishing to discredit Juho in any way.
Johnbull- Looks like you are contradicting yourself to "spice" up the thread.......now you are saying its car and driver........yesterday you are saying its just the car!!!!!!! good one...but you'll have to try harder next time......

end of conversation....Johnbull is just on one big "WIND UP" as he has already admitted to in his previous postings

..........although secretly I think he over order a batch of TC3 so he is trying hard to sell them........... Very good "Salesman" Johnbull!!
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Old 08-14-2002, 05:41 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally posted by dtm


Johnbull- Looks like you are contradicting yourself to "spice" up the thread.......now you are saying its car and driver........yesterday you are saying its just the car!!!!!!! good one...but you'll have to try harder next time......

end of conversation....Johnbull is just on one big "WIND UP" as he has already admitted to in his previous postings

..........although secretly I think he over order a batch of TC3 so he is trying hard to sell them........... Very good "Salesman" Johnbull!!
it is some one else's secret !! dont burst the bubble and dont be an illmanner boy !!
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Old 08-14-2002, 09:55 AM   #105
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Hi guys. Greetings from Malta.

Manticore, You stated "yesterday you are saying it's just the car". Your exact words.

Now I know I'm getting old but I'm sure I wouldn't ever give the credit to JUST THE CAR. No fool would have you believe that. But just in case it was senile dementia stepping in I looked back on my previous threads, not just for yesterday but back three or four days, and nowhere do I say JUST THE CAR. What I did say plenty of times however was that the car plays a very large part.

We seem to be differing just in detail. You think the driver plays the larger part, I don't. So be it. It's not the end of the world. Vive la difference!

Now tell me something Manticore, DTM, and Ken Tan. What is your favorite electric touring car at present.....honestly? And what is the most popular car in your part of the world. I mean in terms of numbers in the top 10.

Kenneth Tan. I don't quite understand your first sentence. Anyway now at least you know where Malta is. To answer your question about TC3s - there are actually more MR4s at the average race meeting in Malta, for I have sold more of them than any other car, however the top 4 in the modified championship were all TC3s, as were the top 2 in stock.

DTM. Thanks for the complement about being a good salesman. Actually the situation is usually quite the opposite. I can never get enough supplies of TC3s. When it was first announced I ordered one, because my son decided he wanted to drive one - without even having seen it. We waited 6 months, and we had one of the first batch of 100 to arrive in Europe. He still races it and won the National championships with it again this year. And it has actually cost remarkably little to keep competitive.

Just had a look at the Reedy race results. I see that quite a few TC3s featured in the top ten there too, despite the fact that Baker and Levanen didn't race. Apart from Easton and Drescher, the other drivers I've hardly ever heard of. Think it could mean something? Actually Baker did race in the IC class - with a TC3. And he won.

Finally, yes I do like winding people up.....especially when they go for the bait so well. Hope you don't mind.

regards

Joe from sunny Malta.
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