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Old 09-08-2001, 12:18 AM   #106
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All the fast guys I talk to agree that droop settings can make a dramatic difference in the feel of the car, but none of them seem to be able to describe exactly what different settings do...

I've asked Paul Lemieux, Mike Dumas, Frank Calandra, Ralph Burch Jr., and a couple more, and I've gotten contradicting info.

For the moment, I tend to let the arms droop lower for bumpy tracks and less for smooth tracks, but that's about the extent of what I'm doing.

I'd really like to know what's up with the setup sheets on Corally's sites...

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Old 09-08-2001, 09:00 AM   #107
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Trips: The two tracks that I run on are smooth. I don't even run any droop on my Schumacher '99pro. And up until I got the 4.1, it was my best handling car. Take a look at the Yokomo thread and see how they have struggled to get the droop set correctly on their Specials, and you see why I say its more trouble than its worth! I make sure the the shocks in the front have the same droop and the shocks in the rear share the same droop and I leave it alone after that. I don't change it from track to track. Its just not worth the hassle. At least not to me, and my cars seem to run pretty well.
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Old 09-10-2001, 08:52 AM   #108
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Well this weekend saw my first non A-main finish since I switch to the 4.1. I couldn't quite get the feel I wanted from the car. The weather was unseasonably cool for this time of year in Kansas. The car handled better with the one-way unlocked, but was unpredictable with the cool weather and slick track. So I stuck it out with the full time 4wd, but the car wasn't as fast that way.

Anyway...they set the A-main up with fewer drivers which left me in the B-main. I won it in a great battle with the track owner, so it was still fun.

So it was a reasonable good weekend, even though I never quite got the car to feel like I wanted it to. If its that cool this Sat. I will try a different setup to deal with the weather.
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Old 09-10-2001, 10:31 AM   #109
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I have to tell you guys having droop setup right is one of the most important things to do on any car. Even if you have your cars shocks matched from left to right you can still have tweak because of the natural misalignments that are impossible to eliminate in the rest of the suspension and chassis. Even 1mm of tweak can really upset the balance of your car and make it feel like a 'great' car to a 'good' car. And all you do is take 1 minute to measure it before you put your tires on. When I used to race w/ shumacher a team mate (national champ) was nice enough to explain the principle and it's very quite simple and works perfect for me. There are three things to remember- Extra droop in back gives you more rear traction, extra droop in front gives you more front traction and a car that is inconsistant probably has tweak which can be fixed by matching the left to right droop. The most accurate way to measure is take your wheels off, set the chassis on a flat board and measure up from the board up to the wheel axle. Of coarse we don't have wheel axles on our cars so just thread the wheel bolt in enough to measure. My preference is to run abot 3mm less droop in the rear than in the front so that i get some nice drift on the hi-bite tracks that i run at.

On another subject I glitched again throughout practice (the new receiver not in yet) until I remounted the antennae and receiver both on the front bulkhead. It looked funny but thankfully didn't glitch the rest of the day. I even won the a-main in spec mod (ran away ). I knew this car would be fast once the electrical bugs were smooshed.
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Old 09-10-2001, 11:06 AM   #110
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I just look at it like this. I'm a club racer! Simple as that. I don't think I could have nearly as much fun as I do, if I spent my entire race day hunting for tweak. I really don't care that much. One of our local fast guys doesn't even touch his car between races. Doesn't clean it off, doesn't check tweak, doesn't even run a modern racing body! But, he has some of the fastest stock motors I've ever seen. A little too fast if you ask me, but thats another story. He hasn't changed the oil in the shocks since he got the car, and doesn't even know what weight the oil is! Yet he can win almost every week because he is so fast. I hate to break it to you, but in stock class at least, if your motor is unusually fast, you can treat your car like crap and still win! Now wouldn't you feel silly doing all this tweak adjustment and still getting lapped on the third lap by another "Stock" racer.

Don't get me wrong though, I love working on and setting up my cars. I set the droop when I first got the car, I did everything your supposed to do to eliminate tweak in the chassis when you put it together, I even make sure I try to keep my electronics well balanced. But, to adjust this "tweak" every race seems like overkill to me. Especially when it all comes down to who has the fastest motor. At least in "stock" class.

How often do you check droop? Every race?

My biggest problem right now is that the how straight the car tracks changes everytime I change tires. One set will let the car track perfect. One leaves it going slightly to the right. One leaves it going slightly to the left. So everytime I change tires I have to reset the tracking. Do you guys have this problem?
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Old 09-10-2001, 11:50 AM   #111
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You know Darkside, I used to think just like that about the motors. All I raced before was stock so all I would do was think my motor was just slow when I got lapped by the really fast guys. I would even think maybe they hand wound their motors or ran 24turn arms. But guess what? Now i'm the fast guy because i'm a lot wiser now because I know how to set up my car to maximise my handling and carry more speed through the corners and so launch down the straights. Now i'm sure people thinkI am the one running hand wound stock motors... hehe. I'm not saying the guy your racing isn't cheating cos it does happen sometimes but I stand behind my motors being stock by telling anyone I would trade my beat up old stock motor for theirs if they think i'm cheating. Driver, chassis, tires, batteries, motor, then body- the important stuff first for stock. Oh and I tweak my chassis like once every other week- usually when i notice the handling is weird or after a hard crash.

I'm a club racer too! Have fun, drive fast, enjoy the weather and your friends is my motto........
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Old 09-10-2001, 12:13 PM   #112
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MikeR: then we check our cars about the same amount. I thought you were saying you check it after every race or something. That is what I was saying I thought would be overkill. So I guess we don't have much to disagree about.

But, I guess this guy bought a great used car then. Because like I said he doesn't do anything to his car. The body is jacked up about a full level higher than it should be, its an old box like Mercedes Tamiya body I think and he laughs when you as him what set up he uses. I believe him when he says he does care about his set up. If he loses one week, he comes back twice as fast the next week with no changes to his setup. Wheres the speed coming from? Not chassis tweak, I can tell you that!

The race organizers also questioned his speed. They threatened to take his motor apart and check it out and the next week he showed up with another motor in. He lost with the new motor since he was no faster than the other fast people, then he stopped showing up at our large track. He now races with us at the local small track were the people don't crack down as much on unusually fast motors.

I don't know enough about "Stock" motors to really question whether someones motor is stock or not. But, I do know that when I am setting up my car better and driving better than someone and still getting lapped on the third lap, that its not just someone whos running a better setup than me.

Like I said before, I place great pride in my car set up. But, set up can take you only so far. If you have the best set up car in a race and your running a 540 motor and everyone else is running 10turn doubles, you'll lose! Period!

Maybe I'm so down on this droop issue because there are so many different opinions about it. The people on the Yokomo thread haven't been able to agree about the droop issue ever since Yokomo came out with the new Special chassis. Maybe if there could be some consensis on how much is good how much is too much or whatever, then I would be more concerned with it.

And I still don't get how droop can be so important when I run little or none on my Schumacher and the car handles spectacular.

O'well......who knows...
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Old 09-10-2001, 12:20 PM   #113
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MikeR: what about the tire issue. Does your car track differently depending on which tires you run? Like say switching from a flat lowprofile tire to rounded body tires.
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Old 09-10-2001, 12:48 PM   #114
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MikeR: also I'm not questioning his motor simply because hes faster than me. Heck, there are about three people at our track that would be between me and him on the fast meter! What I question is the fact that those other fast people who are faster than me, take the same efforts in setup and preperation as you and I do. Some have better epuipment than me, some are better motor tuners, some are just plain better racers. But, with those guys I can compete enough with to still have a chance of winning. Its just odd that there could be one guy who cares nothing about setup or tuning, who could be that much faster than EVERYONE else. Maybe hes just naturally fast!
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Old 09-10-2001, 12:58 PM   #115
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Lets see, me thinks maybe the tires need to be rotated more often when you get em new. If you don't rotate the left set or right set, they'll wear out more depending on if the track goes clock wise or counter. You know what though, I dont rotate my tires on purpose so to speak and I don't have the tracking problem. Is it possible you have a bent rim or maybe the servo is moving slightly? Sometimes my tracking changes but I always take a warm up lap to address that and it never takes more than a click or two to get it right. That's just something I check anyways, kinda like making sure the pinions tightened.

I've learned to highly value droop settings- it is the differnce between those that are fast and those that are ok at my track.
Oh and limited droop IS faster than non limited.... extra droop gives you extra traction but it makes the car un-responsive too if you have a lot of traction already. Thats why your schuey is so fast maybe....
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Old 09-10-2001, 07:29 PM   #116
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MikeR: Yeah, its never more than a few clicks one way or another to get it straightened out. It could definitly be a bent rim though.

Well I found out why the car just seemed "not right". I some how bent one of Corally hardened steel hinge pins! IN THE REAR! I have no idea what I hit hard enough to bent the thing. And I bent the hell out of it to! It was bent at the front and rear of the pin!

Well I put the lighter aluminum units from my C4 AGLE in until I can buy some more of the hardened units.

Also the rear shock mount screw striped out of its hole. I assume it happend at the same time that I bent the hinge pin. I went to unscrew the thing to change the rear springs and it just slide out the hole. At least it didn't come out while I was racing Sat.

O'well all problems solved and I have some parts to order! Its good to have an entire car for spare parts.
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Old 09-14-2001, 01:13 PM   #117
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Any of you guys still out there. Its been a while since anybody posted.

O'well, lets move the thread up, up, up!
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Old 09-14-2001, 01:28 PM   #118
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After a horrifying week I hope all you guys that are racing this weekend good luck. For me it will be a moment to get away for awhile and appreciate life.

See you all and enjoy your racing,
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Old 09-14-2001, 01:36 PM   #119
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MikeR: I can understand that. Everyone handles these types of things differently.

For me, my way of appreciating life is moving on with it. My wife and kids always come to the track with me and we have a good time. I simply can't sit there all weekend and watch that stuff on TV.

So good luck this weekend to anyone who might or might not be racing this weekend.
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Old 09-16-2001, 09:04 AM   #120
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lol you guys are funny. how they measured it was with wheels on and the ride hieght in the middle of the chassis and basically measuring it like ride hieght. I dont agree with this way but hey they do make the cars work.
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