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Old 04-11-2005, 11:29 AM   #1
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Default Fantom 27T Quad heating information

Hi Guy's and girl's

I am running a 27T Fantom Quad that tend to run a bit hot. I was wondering just what the temperture a quad motor could reach before it does any damage .

Many thanks

Blueskieshlg
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Old 04-11-2005, 11:53 AM   #2
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Blue, I pull mine off around 150* after each race. It doesn't run better if it gets too hot. It's a killer motor for open track layouts and a real dog in tight twisty tracks. But it hauls like a 19T on the straights. I have better times with the Fantom Monsters for tighter tracks.
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Old 04-11-2005, 12:32 PM   #3
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you might want to look at what other people are running in terms of roll-out or Final Drive Ratios and go from there...every motor gets hot, but they can also get really hot from being over geared AND undergeared....
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Old 04-11-2005, 05:33 PM   #4
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Hi all
Thanks for your replies, one of the main reasons that the quad is running hot is because we are trying to push the pinion size up to get as much top end as we can, I know we can come down a size to keep the motor cooler,but that will defeat the object.

Hi Kid
You say you run your motors up to 150f would you say that you are being conservative or do you know that, if you were to take the motor over this temp it will do server damage.

As anybody used an on board motor cooling fan, and if so by how much as it reduced the tempreture of the motor.

Many thanks

Blue
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Old 04-12-2005, 07:17 AM   #5
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Here's what I have used on two fantom quads so far and it works great.

In TC:
red+/green- springs
Trinity xxx brushes
rolled out at 23-24mm

I definately don't have problem on the top speed because of the 4 magnets and light springs. The lower rollout makes it shoot out of the corner like a beast. People think that I have a 19t in the straight and the twisties.

Good luck. It took a while to find the proper gearing for my driving style, but once you find it the car will rock everywhere.

Tim
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Old 04-12-2005, 08:47 AM   #6
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Blue, on my XRAY the motor temperature reduces between 20 and 30 F, while a fellow racer with a TC4 and the Associated dual fans claims between 20 and 40 F reduction. For example, my Fantom MVP used to reach 190-200F and now it's about 160-170F. My Monster was about 140-150, and now about 110-120F.
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Old 04-12-2005, 09:20 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by blueskieshlg

Hi Kid
You say you run your motors up to 150f would you say that you are being conservative or do you know that, if you were to take the motor over this temp it will do server damage.
Sorry I didn't mention it, but yes that was with a fan. So it's probably running at 170-179* w/o fan. If it's too hot, it drops power sometime during last half of the race.

Tim, I'll give the Trinity brushes a shot. Did you do anything special to them? On the TurboDyno, the Red/Green combo was best. Better than the Fantom Purples. My roll out was 25mm. Will try 23-24mm this weekend. Thanks!
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Old 04-13-2005, 07:44 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by kidDynomite
Sorry I didn't mention it, but yes that was with a fan. So it's probably running at 170-179* w/o fan. If it's too hot, it drops power sometime during last half of the race.

Tim, I'll give the Trinity brushes a shot. Did you do anything special to them? On the TurboDyno, the Red/Green combo was best. Better than the Fantom Purples. My roll out was 25mm. Will try 23-24mm this weekend. Thanks!
I just cut the comm and slapped the brushes in and off I went. I have 24 runs on the brushes and the comm usually gets cut every 8 runs. I just cut it and it isn't wearing nearly as fast as with 767's.

I just measured it and it still measures .282".. I have a fussy brush and shape the brushes a few turns at .280" just to clean the face. The face of the brush doesn't build up a lot of carbon like traditional brushes.

I actually wore out one of these motors a couple of weeks ago. It never got hot and was a beast until the comm size fell below .270". Now it just spins up like crazy but pulls only 2 amps at 2 volts. My other one pulls 9 amps at 2 volts and spins a lot higher than most other people's motors. They accuse me of running a 19T all of the time. That was the original reason for buying the second motor. I told them to follow me and I went to the shop at the track bought the motor and put it right in the car after changing the springs from red/red to red/green. It went faster than my older motor and they just walked away mumbling choice words. Going fast is fun.

When setup properly, these motors are hard to beat. They are turds when they get hot though.

Tim
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Old 04-13-2005, 10:15 AM   #9
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Default Quad gearing

I used several quads. I found that they had to be geared really low or they would get very hot and run like a dog. In a XXXS I ran 128/27 on rubber tires- asphault. Motor was fats at this gearing. When I tried to increase pinion very much it slowed down.
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Old 04-13-2005, 10:17 AM   #10
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Default Fan on Motor

I just ran my first fan on a Pro4. That motor runs cooler than I have ever run a motor. Not sure if all fans cool as well, but I am sold on the fan. It works great.
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Old 04-13-2005, 07:44 PM   #11
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Hi Tim

At 23-24mm rollout do your quads run hot or are you running a fan, do you use any comm drops with the xxx brushes to help cool things down


Hi Kid and Charles

What fans are you using

Many thanks

Blue
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Old 04-13-2005, 09:28 PM   #12
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I haven't run a fan in 3 years. I ran that rollout in my BMI TC3 and my FK '05. My current gearing is 120/29 on the '05. I used to run comm drops also. I guess over the years, I just didn't see the need.

There is a huge rush to put fans on motors to keep them cool this year. Who is starting it? The name of the company starts with a t. I really am happy with their products, but their motor tuners recommend running a fan to keep things cool even in stock, what is sooo different than the a bunch of other companies motors that run just as fast and stay cool.

I have tuned hundreds of motors for people over the years and sometimes motors will run their best without any add-ons. I just look for the gearing that the motor is looking for. I have used gauss meters on the magnets, every type of comm drop imaginable and up to 3 fans placed around the motor. I am not the best driver out there, but my car definately makes a few heads turn when it goes around the track. Heat is the enemy of this motor. It will spin gobs of rpm more than a monster and stay cooler.

All I can say is use a more exotic brush because of the lubricants they use don't go away at high heat levels and cause the brush to get hotter and drop the effeciency. The Trinity xxx, reedy 777 and cs work great but cost a bundle.

Reedy 767's are your best bet. Slower than trinity or putnams from the word go, but overall faster due to the better compound in the brush. It takes the heat better.

I could talk all day about brushes and what to do with them. Good luck and the best test is on the track. I have had motors that were turds on two different dyno's but were unstoppable on the track.

I'm babbling, i'm tired, i apologise.

Tim
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