Kyosho Touring Car

Reply

Old 08-29-2006, 08:47 AM
  #916  
Tech Rookie
 
"The Maestro"'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 19
Default

Can any stallion owner please humor me and tell me the material of construction of the upper part of the bulkheads. From all available pictures, the parts appear to be some sort of black plastic.

Please..... say it isnt so. If it is so, I demand somone from Kyosho or Kyosho America to identify yourself and explain to me why plastic bulkheads are better than aluminum.
Attached Thumbnails Kyosho Touring Car-craptastic-plastic-bulkhead.jpg  
"The Maestro" is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2006, 09:35 AM
  #917  
Tech Fanatic
 
Tommy Bergfeldt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Sweden
Posts: 979
Default

Yes it is plastic, reason is probably that it's a bit lighter than aluminium OR that they want to sell more expensive hop ups
The bulkheads were actually up for discussion one or two pages back so you could check that out.....
Tommy Bergfeldt is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2006, 09:50 AM
  #918  
Tech Addict
iTrader: (3)
 
Patriiick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: France, Land of the French Fries.
Posts: 587
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Aside from the looks, they re fine.
They re precise, adjust well, make maintenance the same..(still 4 screws) no biggie.
Id be happier with blades on the universals and a strong spool up front, but i ve mentioned it already several posts ago..
Patriiick is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2006, 10:26 AM
  #919  
Tech Rookie
 
"The Maestro"'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 19
Default

Originally Posted by Sparx
Yes it is plastic, reason is probably that it's a bit lighter than aluminium OR that they want to sell more expensive hop ups
The bulkheads were actually up for discussion one or two pages back so you could check that out.....

Thanks for your fast response. I will check a few pages back, but I still expect a response from someone on the Kyosho/Kyosho America R&D team to explain.

As for selling hop ups, I don't think we need to get into the cost of all the new TC's here, but it seems as if all the companies are trying to get a 100% ROI on the first kit they sell.

I disagree that they (plastic blukhead pieces) are as precise as aluminum. The plastic is most likely injection molded. This process has some inherent precision issues and is difficult to replicate time after time to the tolerances needed for the bulkheads of a TC. My guess is that it might be a futile effort to have a more impact resistant or resilient material that "won't tweak" on impact? Am I out of line here? In any case, I think the variations that are produced during the injection molding process could pre-tweak the car and make this one a destined loser.

Sorry Kyosho, you pulled up lame on this one. I was really looking forward to adding this stallion to my stable. But until I hear some public explanation about the plastic bulk head pieces - I am putting this horse out to pasture - and potentially putting it down in a humane fashion.
"The Maestro" is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2006, 10:49 AM
  #920  
Tech Master
 
TRF415boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,857
Default

Originally Posted by The Maestro
Thanks for your fast response. I will check a few pages back, but I still expect a response from someone on the Kyosho/Kyosho America R&D team to explain.

As for selling hop ups, I don't think we need to get into the cost of all the new TC's here, but it seems as if all the companies are trying to get a 100% ROI on the first kit they sell.

I disagree that they (plastic blukhead pieces) are as precise as aluminum. The plastic is most likely injection molded. This process has some inherent precision issues and is difficult to replicate time after time to the tolerances needed for the bulkheads of a TC. My guess is that it might be a futile effort to have a more impact resistant or resilient material that "won't tweak" on impact? Am I out of line here? In any case, I think the variations that are produced during the injection molding process could pre-tweak the car and make this one a destined loser.

Sorry Kyosho, you pulled up lame on this one. I was really looking forward to adding this stallion to my stable. But until I hear some public explanation about the plastic bulk head pieces - I am putting this horse out to pasture - and potentially putting it down in a humane fashion.
While i agree on the fact that it sucks that the top of the bulkheads is made out of plastic, I have to disagree on the idea that it could be an issue to the car's handling.

True plastic injection molding isn't as accurate as CNC machining (if well done that is). However the discrepancy isn't as bad as you seem to say and in no way is going to be enough to make a car tweaked out of the box. Besides plastic is flexible enough so that it won't make the car tweak.

My other point is that Masaaki Hirosaka designed that car, and to be honest, I don't think he'll have included those parts if they were going to be an issue. From what I've heard, those parts are among those that are shared with the Z-5 and TF-5 shaft car, and have not been causing any issues.

My only gripe is that for the highest priced TC on the market, you could expect it to be the highest specced aswell.
TRF415boy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2006, 11:23 AM
  #921  
Tech Elite
 
sosidge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Bristol, UK
Posts: 3,886
Default

Originally Posted by The Maestro
I was really looking forward to adding this stallion to my stable. But until I hear some public explanation about the plastic bulk head pieces - I am putting this horse out to pasture - and potentially putting it down in a humane fashion.
I'd rather have a fast horse than the one with the shiniest coat...

"Demanding" a public explanation about what is ultimately a toy car that you do not own is, frankly, ridiculous.
sosidge is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2006, 11:40 AM
  #922  
Tech Fanatic
 
Tommy Bergfeldt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Sweden
Posts: 979
Default

Originally Posted by The Maestro

I disagree that they (plastic blukhead pieces) are as precise as aluminum. The plastic is most likely injection molded. This process has some inherent precision issues and is difficult to replicate time after time to the tolerances needed for the bulkheads of a TC.
Who can even feel the difference when the bulkhead are tweaked less than a few hundreds of a milllimeter?
Even on a Tamiya MSX the shock tower can be tweaked if you're not paying attention when tightening the screws because the holes are a few hundreds of a mm larger than the screws.....
Tommy Bergfeldt is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2006, 01:58 PM
  #923  
Tech Rookie
 
"The Maestro"'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 19
Default

Originally Posted by sosidge
I'd rather have a fast horse than the one with the shiniest coat...

"Demanding" a public explanation about what is ultimately a toy car that you do not own is, frankly, ridiculous.

And I would rather have a horse without some intrinsic issue built into it. You would probably buy the horse that won the kentucky derby too... based on his previous perfromance. Problem is.... now he has baggage.

Demanding a public explanation is something maybe you should do more of, instead of buying whatever a company sells you. Excersise your right to get answers my man- its what make you human.
"The Maestro" is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2006, 02:03 PM
  #924  
Tech Rookie
 
"The Maestro"'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 19
Default

Originally Posted by Sparx
Who can even feel the difference when the bulkhead are tweaked less than a few hundreds of a milllimeter?
Even on a Tamiya MSX the shock tower can be tweaked if you're not paying attention when tightening the screws because the holes are a few hundreds of a mm larger than the screws.....

I can feel a tweak in a bulkhead..... otherwise, I would not be here expressing my concerns. Tweak anywhere in a car- top deck, bulkhead, etc. is easy to feel on the track.

Please don't take any of my comments as bashing your "pride and joy". I in fact - WANT to like the car. I think its great looking design and has potential to perform. I WANT to buy one. I have merely asked for a rationally based explaination of why my (and others) expectations of the most expensive TC ever, have not been met.

Its simple. If I read a justification as to why the plastic is better than aluminum, I buy one.
"The Maestro" is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2006, 04:52 PM
  #925  
Tech Master
iTrader: (15)
 
Scrad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Plover, WI
Posts: 1,510
Trader Rating: 15 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by Tim Johnson
how far along are you on the build?

I just finished the rear end. Starting on the shocks tonight. I had to use a smaller metal shim for the hinge pins because the rear arms were binding with the 3 plastic shims.

Overall it is going together well and the build quality is very good, but after building several xray's I'm spoiled.
Scrad is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2006, 07:47 PM
  #926  
Tech Master
iTrader: (55)
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,015
Trader Rating: 55 (100%+)
Default

i've seen the upper bulkhead halfs on tamiyas, cyclones, etc bend the 'wings' (inner camer link mounts) and/or the uprights where the shock tower bolts on.

if you are truely concerned about tweak from this part of the car then with aluminium there you will have to replace it after each big hit.

with what looks to be a graphite part? it would be one less thing to worry about aslong as the molding is accurate, which it sounds like it is.
tones is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2006, 08:24 PM
  #927  
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gold Coast Australia
Posts: 800
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

So Anthony...when is yours arriving??????
Barger is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2006, 09:00 PM
  #928  
Tech Master
iTrader: (55)
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,015
Trader Rating: 55 (100%+)
Default

tones is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2006, 01:01 AM
  #929  
Tech Addict
iTrader: (3)
 
Patriiick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: France, Land of the French Fries.
Posts: 587
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by The Maestro
I can feel a tweak in a bulkhead..... otherwise, I would not be here expressing my concerns. Tweak anywhere in a car- top deck, bulkhead, etc. is easy to feel on the track.

Please don't take any of my comments as bashing your "pride and joy". I in fact - WANT to like the car. I think its great looking design and has potential to perform. I WANT to buy one. I have merely asked for a rationally based explaination of why my (and others) expectations of the most expensive TC ever, have not been met.

Its simple. If I read a justification as to why the plastic is better than aluminum, I buy one.
If you don t feel like you re getting your money's worth, "exercise your right" to buy something else..

Last edited by Patriiick; 08-30-2006 at 02:33 AM.
Patriiick is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2006, 06:47 AM
  #930  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (9)
 
seaball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,304
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Arrow first impressions

the car is fitted, and ready to go. something i've noted is the amount of bump steer that the sd car has. bump in, that is. unfortunately, adding shims at the knuckle will only make the problem worse.

the nice part of the steering design is that the rack is pushed forward pretty well, which keeps better ackermann and control going. however, like i mentioned, it appears that the vertical alignment is off initially.

the batteries are also pretty centered, which is good on the rug. in years past, the batteries were always a half cell or more rearward on most of these cars (evo's, sd, barracuda, etc).

chassis stiffness is surprisingly good, considering the plastic gearcases, and thin plates. *i did double the top decks for foam tire racing.

other than that, it's pretty standard. the softer plastic of the arms leaves a little to be desired, as the screws really don't tighten much. i understand harder ones are in the works, as well as aluminum outdrives. those will both be good mods.

track impressions after tonight's run at the gate...

- harold howely -
seaball is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Terms of Service