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Old 02-12-2013, 08:30 PM   #526
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5.11.2 Drivers who are currently qualified for, or have participated in two of the previous IFMAR World Championships are not eligible to enter stock classes at Level 3-5 events. Other restrictions may be imposed on entering the Stock and Modified Offroad Nationals.+

5.13.9 For Level 5 events, failure to abide by stock sponsorship rules which state any driver participating in a stock stated class may not have any type of sponsorship for products, travel or other means of compensation. Additionally, should a participant be found violating the stock rules, the sponsor could potentially incur removal of any product approvals from the ROAR approval list and all other members of said team could be disqualified as well from that event and potentially suspension or termination of membership and/or industry affiliation. All decisions of suspension, termination of membership or affiliation will be decided by the ROAR Executive Committee after investigation of incident.

5.13.10 For Level 5 events, any sponsor found to promote a ‘stealth’ team attitude of compensated drivers that are participating in sportsman stock classes will be immediately removed from the event and all participating drivers for that sponsor will also be removed from the event, per ROAR Official and Race Director discretion.

12.2.8 Any driver who finishes in the top 20% (rounded up) of any Modified National will be barred from entering any Stock National class for the next year.

12.2.9 Any Stock National Champion may not compete in any ROAR stock National class for a period of 5 years. Vehicle genre discipline specific. For example, off road stock buggy national champ may not run off road stock truck but he/she may participate in on road stock nationals the next year
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:31 PM   #527
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i hope everyone is done wrenching on their cars. put the keyboards down, and back away from the computer.
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:44 PM   #528
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5.13.9 For Level 5 events, failure to abide by stock sponsorship rules which state any driver participating in a stock stated class may not have any type of sponsorship for products, travel or other means of compensation.
Wow... ROAR needs to clarify this maybe?... looking at the 17.5 TC signups, I know a bunch of these guys with sponsorships...
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:48 PM   #529
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Originally Posted by nashrcracer View Post
5.11.2 Drivers who are currently qualified for, or have participated in two of the previous IFMAR World Championships are not eligible to enter stock classes at Level 3-5 events. Other restrictions may be imposed on entering the Stock and Modified Offroad Nationals.+

5.13.9 For Level 5 events, failure to abide by stock sponsorship rules which state any driver participating in a stock stated class may not have any type of sponsorship for products, travel or other means of compensation. Additionally, should a participant be found violating the stock rules, the sponsor could potentially incur removal of any product approvals from the ROAR approval list and all other members of said team could be disqualified as well from that event and potentially suspension or termination of membership and/or industry affiliation. All decisions of suspension, termination of membership or affiliation will be decided by the ROAR Executive Committee after investigation of incident.

5.13.10 For Level 5 events, any sponsor found to promote a ‘stealth’ team attitude of compensated drivers that are participating in sportsman stock classes will be immediately removed from the event and all participating drivers for that sponsor will also be removed from the event, per ROAR Official and Race Director discretion.

12.2.8 Any driver who finishes in the top 20% (rounded up) of any Modified National will be barred from entering any Stock National class for the next year.

12.2.9 Any Stock National Champion may not compete in any ROAR stock National class for a period of 5 years. Vehicle genre discipline specific. For example, off road stock buggy national champ may not run off road stock truck but he/she may participate in on road stock nationals the next year
No clarification needed on this rule. There are no stock classes being offered. There is 17.5 13.5 and Mod touring as well as 12th scale.

As you can see there is no metion of stock anything. That is an old rule that was obviously never enforced and since its null and void now that there is nothing called stock it should be removed.
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:48 PM   #530
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Roar needs to clarify a lot of rules.
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:53 PM   #531
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No clarification needed on this rule. There are no stock classes being offered. There is 17.5 13.5 and Mod touring as well as 12th scale.

As you can see there is no metion of stock anything. That is an old rule that was obviously never enforced and since its null and void now that there is nothing called stock it should be removed.
This is correct, and you can trust me because im an engineer.
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:59 PM   #532
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No clarification needed on this rule. There are no stock classes being offered. There is 17.5 13.5 and Mod touring as well as 12th scale.

As you can see there is no metion of stock anything. That is an old rule that was obviously never enforced and since its null and void now that there is nothing called stock it should be removed.
I see in the rulebook where they define that no stock or sportsman class currently exists, however "stock" motors are defined as 17.5 turn.

Quote:
8.8.4.3.1 ROAR Stock motor: Only three slot “Y” wound stators are permitted. No delta wound or slot less stators are allowed. Only circular (round) pure copper magnet wire permitted. The three slotted stator must be wound with 17.5 turns of 2 strands of a maximum diameter of 20AWG or 0.813 mm per slot. The resistance for each slot of the stator shall be tested and a minimum resistance figure will be determined upon submittal.
If 17.5 is not considered a "stock" class at the Nats, then I would argue the D3.5 is a legal motor, as the class is not defined as "stock" and therefore is not required to meet the ROAR rules for stock motors.

Just saying...
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:20 PM   #533
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I see in the rulebook where they define that no stock or sportsman class currently exists, however "stock" motors are defined as 17.5 turn.



If 17.5 is not considered a "stock" class at the Nats, then I would argue the D3.5 is a legal motor, as the class is not defined as "stock" and therefore is not required to meet the ROAR rules for stock motors.

Just saying...

The problem with the "sponsored" thing is who is to determine who is sponsored. If I gave you a top part for one of your cars does that make you sponsored by TOP?

Could someone sponsored "drop" their sponsorships and then just get them again after the race was over. Who is to say what being sponsored really means?

This is not something clearly definable as a wire size.

It would be nice if we were talking about the race and how awesome it is going to be rather than arguing about rules. Roar obviously dropped the ball on a bunch of these rules and their enforcement.

Here is my opinion. Let everyone race and start enforcing the rules in 2014. There is obviously hundereds of precedence over the last few years that show that most of these class rules are a joke and need to be defined more clearly and rewritten to be more specific like most of the Roar Rulebook.

If you take everyone that has any type of sponsorship out of stock there would be 3 racers in each of those classes.

Either way I hope that this conversation can wind down on this thread and we can get back to talking about how awesome this race is going to be and now on how to ruin it?
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:49 PM   #534
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Originally Posted by L.Fairtrace View Post
The problem with the "sponsored" thing is who is to determine who is sponsored. If I gave you a top part for one of your cars does that make you sponsored by TOP?

Could someone sponsored "drop" their sponsorships and then just get them again after the race was over. Who is to say what being sponsored really means?

This is not something clearly definable as a wire size.

It would be nice if we were talking about the race and how awesome it is going to be rather than arguing about rules. Roar obviously dropped the ball on a bunch of these rules and their enforcement.

Here is my opinion. Let everyone race and start enforcing the rules in 2014. There is obviously hundereds of precedence over the last few years that show that most of these class rules are a joke and need to be defined more clearly and rewritten to be more specific like most of the Roar Rulebook.

If you take everyone that has any type of sponsorship out of stock there would be 3 racers in each of those classes.

Either way I hope that this conversation can wind down on this thread and we can get back to talking about how awesome this race is going to be and now on how to ruin it?
You make a lot of good points, and I honestly agree with most of your points.

I didn't even know about this deeply buried, unenforced rule... so I could've cared less about it before it was mentioned. However, as someone who deals with policy and law on a daily basis, I am sort of a stickler for the rules, so... if there's a discrepancy, we need ROAR to clarify this issue so that we can go back to talking about how great of an event this will be.
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:56 PM   #535
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Agree 100% well said.
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Originally Posted by L.Fairtrace View Post
The problem with the "sponsored" thing is who is to determine who is sponsored. If I gave you a top part for one of your cars does that make you sponsored by TOP?

Could someone sponsored "drop" their sponsorships and then just get them again after the race was over. Who is to say what being sponsored really means?

This is not something clearly definable as a wire size.

It would be nice if we were talking about the race and how awesome it is going to be rather than arguing about rules. Roar obviously dropped the ball on a bunch of these rules and their enforcement.

Here is my opinion. Let everyone race and start enforcing the rules in 2014. There is obviously hundereds of precedence over the last few years that show that most of these class rules are a joke and need to be defined more clearly and rewritten to be more specific like most of the Roar Rulebook.

If you take everyone that has any type of sponsorship out of stock there would be 3 racers in each of those classes.

Either way I hope that this conversation can wind down on this thread and we can get back to talking about how awesome this race is going to be and now on how to ruin it?
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:17 PM   #536
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Not sure what you are saying.....

ONLY AT A NATIONAL EVENT....

1. So do you feel a Mod National Champ should be allowed to run a 17.5 class, if they have not won or placed 2nd in the past 5 years (Paully, Ralph, etc...)?

2. So do you feel that a 13.5 National Camp should be allowed to run a 17.5 class, if they have not won or placed 2nd in the past 5 years?
You clearly did not follow what I was saying...
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:18 PM   #537
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Confused...
We all know who the fast guys are.
If they want to be the next 17.5"champ" and their sponsors are cool with that ..good for them....it was not going to be me anyway...
I run with the some of the fastest on road guys every weekend (we all run 17.5)...most of them have some sort of full or semi ride.I don't... It has made me faster..and I get pro level help.


Seeing there was no type of sportsman class..I too assumed 17.5 was "stock".
Guess that is not 100% true.
Yea..It may make it harder for an out of pocket guy to get noticed.
I would guess if you do good against a stacked field...it will be appreciated.
It is what it is...I don't care...Fun will be had.

It's too close to the race to point out flaws with the rules.
There are some obvious ones that need to be clarified.
Let's all make the best of it and hope for change in the future.
It should not effect the event in any way...It's going to be awesome.
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:24 PM   #538
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You clearly did not follow what I was saying...
Yes.... you are correct .... As I stated that in the first line.... I was just asking.... not picking... asking....

But it does not matter... The whole thing is pointless...... And just for the record, this was not a comment directed at you, just in general...
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:27 PM   #539
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just don't forget your headlights and taillights on you cars. you will be disqualified if you don't have your car conform to the appearance package rules.
I didn't think VTA was offered??
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Old 02-12-2013, 11:13 PM   #540
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Wow... ROAR needs to clarify this maybe?... looking at the 17.5 TC signups, I know a bunch of these guys with sponsorships...
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Roar needs to clarify a lot of rules.
Don't worry.....I have it on good authority that ROAR has just acquired a $10,000 machine that will eliminate all gray area in the rules.
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