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Old 12-10-2012, 08:42 PM   #1
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Default All touring cars are the same (pic your favorite anodizing color)

In another thread, it looks like there's about 17 manufacturers of higher end touring cars. But looking at all of these, they're all the same 2 belt design!!! In fact, I chose my TCX based on the anodizing color!

I'm thinking, someone bring back shaft driven cars! It's about time we swing back the other way again (and claim one way is better than the other). The cycle repeats itself over a couple of years and I think we're due to claim shaft driven cars are better once again.
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Old 12-10-2012, 10:19 PM   #2
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They did already. Awesomatix
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Old 12-11-2012, 01:30 AM   #3
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Looks can be decieving.
A Tamiya drives different from an XRay, which drives different from a Schuie, which is different from an AE..... you get it.

Try and put a common setup on all these cars at once, and you'll see what I mean.
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Old 12-11-2012, 03:30 AM   #4
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It depends how much of a perfectionist you are. If you notice little bits of slop between components, things that don't quite line up properly or run true, shocks that leak after a few runs, then no they're not all equal. A couple of manufacturers are ahead on quality.

And the little things make a big different to TC handling. Suspension material, chassis shape, driveshaft angles a dozen other little things make a huge difference. I've tried coying an XRay setup onto my TC6, getting pretty much everything that can be measured identical, and it still handles nothing like an XRay.

The downside of this is that the only way to find the best car for you is to drive a few and see which is quickest.
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Old 12-11-2012, 03:41 AM   #5
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The common layout has just come through moving mass as central as possible, with most amount of room, simular with Nitro really.

And yeah they all handle differently on track, very small changes in what goes into them seems to make a big difference in how they drive, shocks I think have become super important of late, big factor.
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Old 12-11-2012, 06:13 AM   #6
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Geometry and quality are enough to debunk the idea that they are all he same, even if they look similar or identical to the untrained eye. Just think how much dfference a shim makes under a toe block or a ballstud.
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Old 12-11-2012, 07:36 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snoopyrc View Post
Geometry and quality are enough to debunk the idea that they are all he same, even if they look similar or identical to the untrained eye. Just think how much dfference a shim makes under a toe block or a ballstud.
+1
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Old 12-11-2012, 10:20 AM   #8
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Simple maths equation.

Someone posting that all cars are the same = Someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.
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Old 12-11-2012, 10:30 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by academygaz View Post
Simple maths equation.

Someone posting that all cars are the same = Someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.
+1
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Old 12-11-2012, 10:44 AM   #10
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There will always be innovation, but as most manufacturers have a strong top of the range touring car, raced by sponsored drivers and winning results. They will be less willing to completely ditch convention, so progress will be more refined and subtle.

It must also be remembered that the class is quite mature as its been going for 20 or so years so their is a lot of learned thinking, and design theory associated with the general layout of TC's now.

Big change will only happen if the electronics / rules change substantially, or a newcomer wants to enter the scene with a bang (Awesomatix).
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Old 12-11-2012, 11:06 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Qatmix View Post
There will always be innovation, but as most manufacturers have a strong top of the range touring car, raced by sponsored drivers and winning results. They will be less willing to completely ditch convention, so progress will be more refined and subtle.

It must also be remembered that the class is quite mature as its been going for 20 or so years so their is a lot of learned thinking, and design theory associated with the general layout of TC's now.

Big change will only happen if the electronics / rules change substantially, or a newcomer wants to enter the scene with a bang (Awesomatix).
Time after time a young buck has a new perspective on how to build a car. BUT, they will not be noticed until their sponsored drivers hoist a few trophies up. Only then will their design be mimicked and refined by the former leading chassis designers...
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Old 12-11-2012, 11:44 AM   #12
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While all the cars may do certain things better or different this is true. If you take an exact placement of spacing from certain angles the car will be a lot closer than you think to another car in general handling. So if I space my shocks 2 inches from the center of my rear diff on the bottom and 1.3 inches up top. Then transfer that theory to another car the handling characteristics are going to be much more similar as you are making the same triangle. While one may still be faster in the corner due to chassis flex you are getting fairly close to the previous car. No one has redesigned the wheel here. They are just making modifications. Wait till Xray Orange gets hoisted a few more times. I bet you within the next year a lot of companies come out with some now shorty big bore shocks.
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:40 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by academygaz View Post
Simple maths equation.

Someone posting that all cars are the same = Someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.
Oh please, spare me... Yes, there are subtle differences. Yes, the quality is not the same. Yes, the colors are different. Yes, the suspension geometry may be slightly tweaked from one to another. From a design engineering standpoint, the foundation for all these 2 belted cars are the same. Awesomatix is very different.

Maybe unless you've driven each of those 17 cars, then maybe you have a right to make that posting. Otherwise, you yourself do not have any foundation to know what you're talking about. Then again, reading by your signature, your attention may be onto something else other than RC.
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:55 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R3VoLuTiOn View Post
They did already. Awesomatix
+1 Nice! I've only seen these in pictures and wish I could see them in person. I'm super curious about how the coil springs work out. I think it'd be awesome (pun intended) if one of the top ten drivers switched to this and started winning a lot of racers.
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Old 12-11-2012, 01:04 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3Armand View Post
Oh please, spare me... Yes, there are subtle differences. Yes, the quality is not the same. Yes, the colors are different. Yes, the suspension geometry may be slightly tweaked from one to another. From a design engineering standpoint, the foundation for all these 2 belted cars are the same. Awesomatix is very different.

Maybe unless you've driven each of those 17 cars, then maybe you have a right to make that posting. Otherwise, you yourself do not have any foundation to know what you're talking about. Then again, reading by your signature, your attention may be onto something else other than RC.
I think the same could be argued in the 1:1 scale world. Look at a Ferrari, Corvette, Porsche, Viper. All follow a similiar formula but its details that make each different.

Heck even going from an Xray T1-T3 ('10) and testing a friends T2 007 and a T3 '12 they drive different. In addition we have at least 1 local that now uses a T3 for one class and a T4 for another and the differences are enough that you can tell with a blind taste test.

I think it would be easy to argue that you can take any basic setup and then from there tweak to to your satisfaction but the bottom line is you WILL need to make changes.
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