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Old 12-13-2012, 10:31 PM   #46
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Where are your eyes, guys?
Why you say that all touring cars are the same?

The touring car exists already and available for everybody in which:

1. Most lowest center of gravity at the moment.

2. Almost zero maintenance shocks that operates during year without
rebuilding required.

3. The shocks that don't need a sets of springs and silicone oils for hardness
and damping adjustment.

4. Almost zero maintanance dust proof transmission with long life metal
gears.

5. Possibility of spur replacing without removal of top deck.

6. The separate adjustment of the lower deck flex.

7. Suspension that doesn't need optional caster and toe blocks for
adjustment of caster and rear toe.

8. Suspension with reactive caster possibility.

9.Suspension with active rear toe.

10. Suspension with unsprung weight that is about 1/2 of this parameter
in all the rest cars.

11. Front and rear suspension's components are indentical that decreases
the cost of maintanance.

12. Possibility of adjustment of CG front-to-rear position by means of
battery offset with wide range.

13. Highest efficency front double joints CVD are the kit altready.

14. Highest efficency rear universals that don't need any set screws for
assembling.

15. Battery mounting without any tape.
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Old 12-14-2012, 12:30 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Babich View Post
Where are your eyes, guys?
Why you say that all touring cars are the same?

The touring car exists already and available for everybody in which:

1. Most lowest center of gravity at the moment.

2. Almost zero maintenance shocks that operates during year without
rebuilding required.

3. The shocks that don't need a sets of springs and silicone oils for hardness
and damping adjustment.

4. Almost zero maintanance dust proof transmission with long life metal
gears.

5. Possibility of spur replacing without removal of top deck.

6. The separate adjustment of the lower deck flex.

7. Suspension that doesn't need optional caster and toe blocks for
adjustment of caster and rear toe.

8. Suspension with reactive caster possibility.

9.Suspension with active rear toe.

10. Suspension with unsprung weight that is about 1/2 of this parameter
in all the rest cars.

11. Front and rear suspension's components are indentical that decreases
the cost of maintanance.

12. Possibility of adjustment of CG front-to-rear position by means of
battery offset with wide range.

13. Highest efficency front double joints CVD are the kit altready.

14. Highest efficency rear universals that don't need any set screws for
assembling.

15. Battery mounting without any tape.


Oleg, what u say is correct and the car is a nice piece of kit, the problem is stock its always out of stock, and all the adjustments can be a lot to get around when ur concentrating on not crashing! It can be over complicating! Love the look of the car though maybe 1 day I will try. J
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Old 12-14-2012, 05:47 AM   #48
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16. Costs $1000

17. No local parts support
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Old 12-14-2012, 06:24 AM   #49
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18. Beyond the average racers comprehension of car set up...
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Old 12-14-2012, 06:55 AM   #50
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Yet everyone complains all the cars look the same... Come on, you can't have it both ways. Innovation costs money, live with it
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Old 12-14-2012, 07:10 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Hobson View Post
Yet everyone complains all the cars look the same... Come on, you can't have it both ways. Innovation costs money, live with it
Have a re read mate not everyone. I think the out come of this thread is yes the majority of the cars look similar it's the subtle differences that make them apart. If I understood the a700 series of cars I would buy one most defiantly. The lack of info and parts kits availability is too much for me. The time it would take to learn and understand it puts me off.

Oleg do a set up guide for ur cars an easy understandable one xray style and u might find the demand for lesser drivers trying the car out. But would the extra demand put too much stress on, as its been mentioned the parts and kit availability is low! I say this in a positive way I would love to run it it looks good on and off the track. Also the chassis u use are they only 3 or 2.5 mm can't remember which it is sorry! Or are u releasing different thickness's for change in flex? I know the latest have inserts just thought I'd ask.
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Old 12-15-2012, 05:48 AM   #52
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With all due respect Mr Babich, if you read the first page you will notice a few poeple have already said the A700 is probably the only radically different design that works today. So definitely everyone would agree that the A700 does not fall into the look the same category. I think TS was talking about the placement of motor and batteries and electronics. While you did say todays design are the lowest CG, however i still feel there is still a compromise becuase there heaviest components on the car, the motor and the batteries, are NOT passing through the centerline of the car, unlike designs from 15-20 years ago. Mr Dale Burr has designed a superb custom TC that places the heaviest components passing through the car's centerline, i would like to see more such designs. There was also another guy who tweaked a TRF 414M heavily, a very weight centralized design. He moved the motor more forward as well as the batteries, he swears its corners better than a 417.
I would like to see TC designs going in that direction instead of the current 415 clones.
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Old 12-15-2012, 06:11 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alcyon View Post
With all due respect Mr Babich, if you read the first page you will notice a few poeple have already said the A700 is probably the only radically different design that works today. So definitely everyone would agree that the A700 does not fall into the look the same category. I think TS was talking about the placement of motor and batteries and electronics. While you did say todays design are the lowest CG, however i still feel there is still a compromise becuase there heaviest components on the car, the motor and the batteries, are NOT passing through the centerline of the car, unlike designs from 15-20 years ago. Mr Dale Burr has designed a superb custom TC that places the heaviest components passing through the car's centerline, i would like to see more such designs. There was also another guy who tweaked a TRF 414M heavily, a very weight centralized design. He moved the motor more forward as well as the batteries, he swears its corners better than a 417.
I would like to see TC designs going in that direction instead of the current 415 clones.
Dont you think their is a reason why companies arnt going in the motor ,battery down the center rout? Im sure most of the major players in the tc market have done some testing and came to the conclusion that inline was not the answer.
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Old 12-15-2012, 06:40 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 303slowdown View Post
Dont you think their is a reason why companies arnt going in the motor ,battery down the center rout? Im sure most of the major players in the tc market have done some testing and came to the conclusion that inline was not the answer.
They are more afraid to rock the boat. Would you buy a car that looks radically different? Probably not right? Well tell me one thing, how come with an old tech car with a 10.5T boosted motor, with a rear toe in of only 2 degrees, and rear shocks that are more stood up than every one else , with a front gear diff that has #200000 oil isntead of #300000, i still get a very stable and drivable, and brake - able car? Nobody else i know could run with such setup, they keep telling me their car's rear ends will swing around without 3 degrees rear toe and at least #300000 front gear diff oil.
There is something benefecial about centralized weight. The manufacturers havent caught on yet. But the scratch builders have.
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Old 12-15-2012, 07:50 AM   #55
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Was going to ignore this topic but what the heck, lets wade in

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benzaah View Post
18. Beyond the average racers comprehension of car set up...
A more apt comment would be "beyond the lazy racers comprehension of car set-up". Oleg's car has the same geometry adjustments as any other TC for the most part, some of them are just done a little differently. It's sad that racers nowadays expect to be spoon fed set-ups. Whatever happened to reading books about suspension dynamics or better yet, simply going out and trying things on the track

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jampot View Post
The time it would take to learn and understand it puts me off.
Thank goodness when Adrian Newey is designing his latest RedBull F1 masterpiece he doesnt stop half way thru and go "hmm, better not make this too innovative or complicated, the mechanics might not be able to twiddle their spanners"

I do understand your point somewhat, but innovation often forces us to learn new things, and knowledge is power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 303slowdown View Post
Dont you think their is a reason why companies arnt going in the motor ,battery down the center rout? Im sure most of the major players in the tc market have done some testing and came to the conclusion that inline was not the answer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alcyon View Post
They are more afraid to rock the boat. Would you buy a car that looks radically different? Probably not right?
Alcyon beat me to it... with the level of competition and professionalism in the sport today, there's a little thing called commercial constraints at play. There's a reason that the boutique manufacturers are the one's more likely to do something more radical, because simply they are not fighting for large chunks of market-share like the mainstream manufacturers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alcyon View Post
There is something benefecial about centralized weight. The manufacturers havent caught on yet. But the scratch builders have.
The designers of most 4wd electric buggies have caught on too, to a point
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Old 12-15-2012, 07:54 AM   #56
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Losi jrxs..... That had the center line c of g. And that was dog droppings! They each have their uniques, their own pro's and con's they most defiantly are not the same even though they look the same with the exception of the a700.
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Old 12-15-2012, 08:59 AM   #57
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To the point of the original posters idea, he has a valid point in one very important aspect...

Price and value, cause I do not see any one car blowing any other into the weeds, far from it in fact, and this is where I struggle like crazy to see value in any brand that changes designs every 6 months, and those who release new versions every single year.

This also applies to cars now pushing up around the 1g mark, I mean seriously, if a $300-$400 ride is going to the job done, where is the value for money in something twice the price?

You can innovate your ass off, and that can be as cool as you want it to be, but apart from bling factor, unless you can then blow the doors off every other brand out there, any bragging rights comes down to how cool you thought your new whip looked on your work bench.
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Old 12-15-2012, 10:27 AM   #58
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There are some very good, valid points made recently on this thread. It does show that whilst we all love to race, we have slightly different priorities.

Some of the more competitive guys need the base set up to be on the money. They don't need to be hunting all day for the set up.

Some don't see any reason a car needs to cost 1000USD if its no quicker than a 400 dollar ride. All fair points.

I like the technical aspect and would like to learn about the intricacies of car set up, and approach to driving technique. I have an Awesomatix and it is a great choice for me. I learned a great deal the last year, its just a hobby, and that's what I want out of it.

Maybe the OP was kinda wrong but right at the same time, but I'm happy there is probably a car out there to suit everyone ATM. Perhaps TC is healthier than we imagine.
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Old 12-15-2012, 10:56 AM   #59
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I'm just waiting for a Traxxas TC.

yesh, I'm joking. :P
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Old 12-15-2012, 12:46 PM   #60
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why the hell not a traxxas tc? traxxas is sold in major electronic retailers here in canada. if they can make a rtr package that is valid for most of the club racing scene, why shouldn't they put it out.
its not like it costs them money to develop new parts as most of their cars are derivitives of other cars.
local parts support almost everywhere you go, pretty tough components and excellent customer service.
I cant think of a better way to get people into racing.

this is absolutely a business though. i personally think a $800-$1000 tc is rediculous, but in the right hands demonstrates how good that inovation can be. in the hands of jo blow club dude who cares, he spent $800 and probably still cant beat a more experienced guy running a $200 used car.

run what fits in your budget, fits your support network, fits at your local track if you are new and need to mooch and forget comparing oneself to the top 10 you see at all the races. paid or not, those guys are just exceptional drivers who could exhibit fine racing with an hpi sprint ha.
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