R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Like Tree2Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-25-2009, 04:47 AM   #10576
Tech Champion
 
tc3team's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 6,151
Default

Totally agree with what has already been said about optional parts

Car setup is important, but driver skill is more important.

Perception of apexs and braking/acceleration zones will all help to get a quicker lap time.

Once you have that, this is the time to start understanding what makes the car feel better for you. Some racers like the feel of anti roll (sway) bars and/or stiffer/softer springs/oil.

For me, one place you can loose a lot of speed (and time) is on how much corner speed your car can carry. less angled corners only allow more speed when the track is wide enough to carry it (and put you in a good place for the next corner if there is one soon after it) - or you will find the dirt... or the track board very quickly

With a slower 27t stock motor, it is easier to use a one way bearing to help carry more speed through a corner, as it gives the car less braking.

You do however need to hold a very defensive line to and through the corner to help you keep your race position.

On slower corners, it is better to take an approach to it from the middle of the track, then brake as little as possible and turn in. If theres anyone on the inside make sure you cover them well before you approach the corner, follow their line as best as you can envisage.

A spool typically gives you a quicker laptime with brushless motors, simply as the motor output is transitioned through it, to the track instantly, as there is no differential to rotate.

Most people will feel a difference in setup is better to use a spool over a differential though.

With springs/oil, typically, the more traction there is, the harder springs/heavier oils are used.

Front toe out gives a quicker initial steering, but you loose some responce after mid cornering. Front toe in makes the car feel more stable/safe to drive.

Camber. Only use 1 or 2 degrees at most, or your tyres can cone, and you will loose the full contact area of the tyres on the track, resulting in less grip and slower lap times.

Also, the higher the grip level, the less camber you will usually need, or the car can be prone to grip roll.
__________________
Fusion Hobbies / www.horshamrc.org

The wife stops me being sane and the r/c stops me from going insane....
tc3team is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2009, 03:40 PM   #10577
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Christchurch, NZ
Posts: 1,063
Default

One of the most important tuning aids...... Tires. As Harry said on Days of Thunder "tires is what wins a race". I use my stock tires for bashing and cutting casual laps, but I have a few sets of different compound rubbers and some foams that I muck around with. It makes a HUGE difference to the handling.

Also, don't be afraid to try different oil/spring/mounting position set-ups to those commonly used. One of the fastest guys at our clubs has 50wt in the front and 90wt in the rear It suits his driving style, but makes my car feel like poop
__________________
Agama A8 Evo | GRP .21 | Spektrum | Savox

My car just hit 88mph. I hope it comes back soon....
JR007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2009, 10:51 PM   #10578
Tech Fanatic
 
correcaminos's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: spirit river
Posts: 770
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

Thanks for all the advice.I'm a OK driver off-road ,I'm first in MT for the last 3 years in our club and second on buggy but on road I'm sure I'll have to learn how to drive againg.
I'll try the one way bearing, ball bearings for the steering and servo saver Kimbrough 204(if I can find it)any other brand sugestions?THANKS
correcaminos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2009, 01:09 AM   #10579
Tech Fanatic
 
bukil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: BenTooWrah
Posts: 998
Trader Rating: 39 (100%+)
Default

Anyone know what toe blocks I need to use to achieve these:

2.5 for Front sweep
3.0 Toe in rear

Thanks
bukil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2009, 01:50 AM   #10580
Tech Initiate
 
Rear Admiral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Adelaide, Sth Aust.
Posts: 47
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default Suspension blocks explained

Quote:
Originally Posted by bukil View Post
Anyone know what toe blocks I need to use to achieve these:

2.5 for Front sweep
3.0 Toe in rear

Thanks
Here's a link to great TRF tuning site in the UK that explains all:

http://www.thard.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=30

As you can see, there are a number of different combinations of blocks to achieve these angles, with each combo offering a different width (what we call "track" in Aus). So, you can change the handling characteristics with suspension blocks by changing the toe/sweep angle and/or the track width.

Hope this helps.
__________________
TA05

"This is going to be bigger than the biggest thing you can think of"
Rear Admiral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2009, 03:53 AM   #10581
Tech Champion
 
tc3team's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 6,151
Smile General opinon of the car- good for high bite tracks!

Just a point about the ta05 platform of cars, in general for the 3 years I have raced one.

Even in standard form, they perform very well on a high bite, small/medium track, rubber or foam.

It doesnt matter that they weigh in quite heavy, this can help generate grip and turn in (with the right tyres!)

Its downside is the stock tub chassis, which does have too much chassis flex to it. However, a Tamiya graphite tub or preferably a 3racing/penguin chassis upgrade can make the car much, much stiffer.

I've used cone washers on the top deck screws of the 3racing chassis to increase the load area on the screws, giving even more chassis strength.

As for suspension, you dont need it to be working too much if there is already a lot of grip on the track, or the suspension will work against you, getting the car up on two wheels, or worse still, flipping the car over.

TRF shocks are a little heavier, but they will be much more durable in the long term, as the plastic shocks can wear too quickly if your kit comes with them.

With that in mind, 50wt oil is usually a good starting point for a high bite track, with 3 hole pistons. As for springs, 27lb upwards is about right for me on the front, 0 degree front toe, 3 deg rear toe.

Hope that helps a few people
__________________
Fusion Hobbies / www.horshamrc.org

The wife stops me being sane and the r/c stops me from going insane....
tc3team is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2009, 06:05 AM   #10582
Tech Elite
 
M-Technic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Posts: 2,562
Trader Rating: 15 (100%+)
Default

Does the carbon tub chassis exhibit less tweak than the kit chassis? I realized last night that my car is extremely tweaked and there wasn't much I could do about it.
__________________
RCAmerica | Xray | Hudy | Radiopost | Speed Passion USA | Trinity | P3 Graphics
M-Technic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2009, 06:23 AM   #10583
Tech Champion
 
tc3team's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 6,151
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M-Technic View Post
Does the carbon tub chassis exhibit less tweak than the kit chassis? I realized last night that my car is extremely tweaked and there wasn't much I could do about it.
I have heard of reports many pages back on this topic that people have problems with brand new chassis being not moulded right out the factory

Something to do with the droop I think? Although don't quote me on that.

Thinking with a logical approach, you should get less issues with tweak on a stronger chassis, as the material should be less prone to tweaking in the first place.

I have rarely experienced it with the twin level graphite 3racing chassis, but occasionally I would wrench off all the screws from the top deck (which also held in the steering arms) and retighten.

Thicker chassis= less chance of getting out of shape.

If you really wanted to with a non tub chassis car, periodially strip the car right down to the chassis and place it between 2 heavy flat objects for a few days.

However, with serious issues with tweak/big accidents, the chassis material is already usually useless, as the material will "remember" the tweak and not spring back to the proper shape...

hth
__________________
Fusion Hobbies / www.horshamrc.org

The wife stops me being sane and the r/c stops me from going insane....
tc3team is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2009, 09:35 AM   #10584
Tech Fanatic
 
bukil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: BenTooWrah
Posts: 998
Trader Rating: 39 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rear Admiral View Post
Here's a link to great TRF tuning site in the UK that explains all:

http://www.thard.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=30

As you can see, there are a number of different combinations of blocks to achieve these angles, with each combo offering a different width (what we call "track" in Aus). So, you can change the handling characteristics with suspension blocks by changing the toe/sweep angle and/or the track width.

Hope this helps.
I have already checked that out. What's confusing is the number before the letter. To my understanding, number before it is how tall the blocks are? i.e 1A = 1mm taller than A? Furthermore, there are toe blocks that have a prefix "X". Does this indicate it's the narrowest? I have read about this before, but I'm not too sure if I remember it correctly.

Thanks
bukil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2009, 06:31 PM   #10585
Tech Initiate
 
Rear Admiral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Adelaide, Sth Aust.
Posts: 47
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

M-Technic: The problem with tweak comes from the chassis being cast in a mould. My chassis has it, and though I don't run the carbon reinforced tub, I've heard others who do complain that they have tweak issues too. Some people find the TA05 stock too flexible, but I find that the flex goes a long way to overcoming the tweak problem. If you really want to avoid tweak, you'll need to find that one-in-a-hundred chassis tub that came out perfect, or go with a carbon fibre deck like the 3Racing chassis.

bukil: The 1 prefix on the sus blocks really doesn't mean anything - most people don't even bother to write it when making setup notes (just A or E or whatever). There isn't an A and a 1A - only a 1A, so there's nothing for it to be a mm taller than. If you want to adjust block height (ie for anti-squat) you have to put some shims under one of the blocks.

The early TRFs had only blocks from E to A (widest to narrowest). When Tamiya wanted to make a narrower block than A, they couldn't keep up the naming series 'cause A is the first letter in the alphabet, so they called it X. As they made more narrower blocks, they named them XA, XB, XC etc (from widest to narrowest). This is where the confusion comes in, because they've reversed the alphabetical order of width in the middle of the series - B is wider than A, but XA is wider than XB.

Hope this makes sense.
__________________
TA05

"This is going to be bigger than the biggest thing you can think of"

Last edited by Rear Admiral; 08-26-2009 at 09:25 PM. Reason: clarification
Rear Admiral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2009, 07:31 PM   #10586
Tech Elite
 
JimmyMac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: NC
Posts: 4,443
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Tub chassis tweak is normal. As stated by Rearend, it's a part of the molding/cooling process. I have it in both my plastic tub and carbon tub chassis. Just compensate with your droop settings. I think on one of my old TCS setups, in the front I had 3mm left droop and 4mm right droop. In the rear I had 4mm left droop and 3mm right droop. It did not affect handling at all.

I have my TA05 back together now. I have the weight down to about 1420g race ready. Should be interesting to run it again.
__________________
M.J. McIntyre

Yokomo YRX12
Tamiya TB03
JimmyMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2009, 11:16 PM   #10587
Tech Fanatic
 
94eg!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 832
Trader Rating: 17 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rear Admiral View Post
bukil: The 1 prefix on the sus blocks really doesn't mean anything -
The prefix does mean something. There is an A block and a 1A block. The prefix "1" means it sits 1mm shorter/lower. This was introduced on the TRF415 while the Evolution cars still used the standard height blocks. My TB Evo 3 & 4 use the taller blocks without the prefix. As you can see in the photos, the A block is obviously taller...

A block:


1A block:


PS: The reason for the change was to allow a lower roll center. To raise the roll center, with the 1A block, you simply add shims below the block...
94eg! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2009, 12:00 AM   #10588
Tech Elite
 
niznai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: All over the place
Posts: 2,940
Default

I have not found any tweak in my TA05 tub. I have th ecarbon version and while I didn't use the stock plastic tub the kit came with, it looks very well made and doesn't show anything suspicious.

If anything I would be weary of the aftermarket hopups which I found are a hit and miss affair. 3racing for instance is a source best avoided in my books.

But I think you'd have to really bash the crap out of a tub chassis to get it to tweak if it didn't come already teaked from factory.

As for stiffness, I prefer my chassies as stiff as possible and tune my suspension to deal with the various needs for increased grip rather than rely on chassis flex. I race on carpet and a lot of people want chassis flex and seem to be doing well with that, I am just not one of them. And there are others. At our club there is a guy with a 3mm chassis Corally RDX PHI who beats the crap out of everybody with his car, so there you go, there is no "one size fits all" answer.
__________________
Team Greasy Weasel

The best upgrade to any car is some driver skill.
niznai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2009, 02:51 AM   #10589
Tech Champion
 
tc3team's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 6,151
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by niznai View Post
there is no "one size fits all" answer.
I'd agree with that, just for me the 3racing chassis seemed like my driving style indoors on medium > high bite tracks, but outdoors it did not want to turn in as well as other cars.

It's rigid chassis helped the cars steering response indoors, making a car that transitioned well. Sensitive, yet very drivable and precise.

I did play around with various suspension settings/tyres outdoors, but it just didnt have the turn in that I had indoors
__________________
Fusion Hobbies / www.horshamrc.org

The wife stops me being sane and the r/c stops me from going insane....
tc3team is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2009, 03:01 AM   #10590
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 422
Default

i`m thinking of going to a carbon chassis too, i`m running a 5.5 motor and 2s lipo and my front belt keeps turning itself around. going to try a carbon tube from front to rear first to see if that makes any difference in handling
Hatebreed is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FS: Tamiya TA05-R (TA05) TCS Legal limbohz R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 5 06-05-2008 08:58 PM
New Tamiya TA05 R touring car/motor/esc! Frost99999 R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 3 08-07-2007 12:24 PM
FWD touring car/sedan hellbilly R/C Items: Wanted to Buy 6 01-12-2007 06:22 PM
Tamiya TA05 full race sedan, Tons of Hop Ups lbckevin R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 13 08-29-2006 03:05 PM
want to buy a touring/sedan car traxxasracer Minnesota and North/South Dakota Racing 7 09-21-2004 06:36 AM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 04:31 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net