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Old 04-23-2007, 09:38 PM   #7306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkseid
Well if its not, it would definitely change my opinion about the car.
yup.
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Old 04-23-2007, 09:57 PM   #7307
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From an engineering standpoint the front and rear belt should NOT be equal in length. Due to weight transfer on power the rear belt will always have a higher torque load and thus would have a higher percentage of stretch under load requiring more belt tension to prevent slipping and thus resulting in a reduction in efficiency.

In an ideal belt drive train the rear belt must be shorter than the front in proportion to the torque loading and belt stretch percentages. This will allow lower belt tension and greater efficiency.

There is also the concept of "take up” or the amount of time it takes for the belt to come under tension and begin to drive a diff pulley at its maximum loading. The longer the rear belt is the later it will start to drive the rear wheels forward due to the same torque load and belt stretch issues. This can result in the front wheels pulling more than the rears are pushing on power and this can have a negative effect on handling.

Once again a short real belt and a longer front belt balance the "take up" and times the front and rear diffs so they drive the car forward simultaneously.


All of these details cause TINY effects in a cars handling but when you take these details and add them up with other equally tiny details you end up with really good touring cars. This is why all the current top level sedans look the way they do.

I am not knocking the TA05. It is a great handling and well designed car. I just wanted to point out a few details about what goes into drivetrain design.
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Old 04-24-2007, 12:28 AM   #7308
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*Insert Schumacher plug here*
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Old 04-24-2007, 12:49 AM   #7309
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What's up with the ugly battery strap on the MS? The car is otherwise gorgeous, but that thing looks like it belongs on a toy, not a race car.
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Old 04-24-2007, 01:03 AM   #7310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf
Is this the picture of the 30th anniversary special version?
Yes it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf
I heard that the wheel base for this special version is shorter to fit the body.
Yes it is - 232mm.
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Old 04-24-2007, 02:42 AM   #7311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nexxus
*Insert Schumacher plug here*


Clearly the Schumacher design team didn't understand these basic fundamentals when they were building the Axis 2.

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Old 04-24-2007, 03:18 AM   #7312
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Quote:
From an engineering standpoint the front and rear belt should NOT be equal in length. Due to weight transfer on power the rear belt will always have a higher torque load and thus would have a higher percentage of stretch under load requiring more belt tension to prevent slipping and thus resulting in a reduction in efficiency.

In an ideal belt drive train the rear belt must be shorter than the front in proportion to the torque loading and belt stretch percentages. This will allow lower belt tension and greater efficiency.

There is also the concept of "take up” or the amount of time it takes for the belt to come under tension and begin to drive a diff pulley at its maximum loading. The longer the rear belt is the later it will start to drive the rear wheels forward due to the same torque load and belt stretch issues. This can result in the front wheels pulling more than the rears are pushing on power and this can have a negative effect on handling.

Once again a short real belt and a longer front belt balance the "take up" and times the front and rear diffs so they drive the car forward simultaneously.
Thanks for that info Adrian,

I am curious to figure out what the implications of touring car belt length are when considering braking situations. I know that there are other factors when considering handling, but it seems as if we are isolating different drivetrains from their respective platforms to compare them only in that respect.

According to you, the rear belt is subjected to greater forces of torque on-power because weight is being shifted to the rear. The converse, therefore, should also be true: the front belt should be subjected to greater amounts of torque while slowing down since weight is being transferred forwards.

Now in a touring car with 4-wheel braking, while braking, the load should be greater on the front of the car and should result in lot of stretching of the front belt. And that, in turn, will cause the rear differential to engage more quickly than the front one. If we factor in a car with a front belt being considerably longer than the rear belt, won't that lead to issues while braking?
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Old 04-24-2007, 03:25 AM   #7313
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Maybe we spend more time on power than braking?
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Old 04-24-2007, 03:38 AM   #7314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trf_racer
I have a feeling that it is not equal lenght belt. If it is, then the motor has to be more to the front.
I think you may be right. If they were equal surely the blue belts would be fitted? If so this car is not a TA05 at all.
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Old 04-24-2007, 03:46 AM   #7315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth Tan
Maybe we spend more time on power than braking?
some dont though.... hehe
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Old 04-24-2007, 04:05 AM   #7316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth Tan
Maybe we spend more time on power than braking?
I never questioned the logic behind using different length F & R belts over isometric belts. The point AdrianM brought up that I am interested in is about belt length and handling characteristics.

Thanks
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Old 04-24-2007, 04:05 AM   #7317
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Default belts are not the same..?

If you compare the porsche special edition front topdeck, with the TA05MS front topdeck, the MS version is much longer, thus implying a longer front belt since the other elements of the car are identical..

So my conclusion is: front belt is longer than the rear.. it s more than a revised TA05..

Last edited by Patriiick; 04-24-2007 at 05:57 AM.
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Old 04-24-2007, 04:05 AM   #7318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sosidge
I think you may be right. If they were equal surely the blue belts would be fitted? If so this car is not a TA05 at all.
Belts are equal in length but shorter than the regular TA05 belts.

Oh, and yes you are right: it isn't really a TA05 at all. It is a one-off, that uses some TA05 and TRF415 parts, and, maybe, the chassis plates are the same as the TRF501X, but I could not swear to that.
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Old 04-24-2007, 04:23 AM   #7319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peejay
Belts are equal in length but shorter than the regular TA05 belts.

Oh, and yes you are right: it isn't really a TA05 at all. It is a one-off, that uses some TA05 and TRF415 parts, and, maybe, the chassis plates are the same as the TRF501X, but I could not swear to that.
I think you must be talking about the 30th Anniversary car whereas we are talking about the TA05MS.
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Old 04-24-2007, 04:39 AM   #7320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HI_808
I never questioned the logic behind using different length F & R belts over isometric belts. The point AdrianM brought up that I am interested in is about belt length and handling characteristics.

Thanks
Never intended it to be a wise arse response , I was thinking that maybe even with the front belts stretching as much as the rear was per burst of power, it is at a much reduced rate.
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