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Old 07-11-2006, 10:33 AM   #4591
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Scarab,

Lipo - only downside is they are not legal to race at TCS, Roar or IFmar.
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Old 07-11-2006, 10:36 AM   #4592
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My point was they need to be made legal for racing because there is no downside to them. They are lighter, higher power and longer runtimes than standard old cells. They should be legal to race.

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Old 07-11-2006, 10:58 AM   #4593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarab
I want to go Lipo and be done with it. Lighter, more power and runtime. Is there a downside?

Scarab
Depending on what chager you currently own, you may have to purchase a new one. But thats about the only downside.
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Old 07-11-2006, 11:03 AM   #4594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarab
My point was they need to be made legal for racing because there is no downside to them. They are lighter, higher power and longer runtimes than standard old cells. They should be legal to race.

Scarab
Patience...

They will be legal soon enough. The problem is that there are A LOT of racers out there who enjoy an advantage by being able to own the highest quality, best numbered cells on the market and can affoard to replace them when they fall off slightlly. And those racers DON'T want to give up the advantage they hold.

So they will complain bitterly about LiPo. They will ask local track not to allow them, they will ask sanctioning bodies not to allow them, and will do everything they can to delay them becoming legal.

But...they will...

It will just take a little bit of time.
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Old 07-11-2006, 11:34 AM   #4595
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Yep, most hardcore racers always hate when the playing field is leveled. This is why I'm vehemently opposed to Tamiya Silver Can TCS racing. What a cheaters paradise that is! Without Tamiya doing silver can handouts at races I will never race that class again. When I get caught up to and passed on the back straightaway in the Spec (where everyone is suppose to be equal) and/or GT3 class, something is wrong somewhere, and Tamiya doesn't care and turns a blind eye to the problem. Handout Silver Cans is the only way to level the playing field for people who don't have the resources to cheat with their silver cans.

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Old 07-11-2006, 11:50 AM   #4596
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scarab,

Your staement is very true and the opinion of many racers. Forward the info to Tamiya USA>
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Old 07-11-2006, 12:03 PM   #4597
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I have set multiple emails to Tamiya concerning the Silver Can cheating and everytime they have tried to defend their position saying they don't have the resources and BS like that. I have never gotten a reasonable reply. One person's email apparently doesn't make that much of an impact.

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Old 07-11-2006, 12:11 PM   #4598
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkseid
Patience...

They will be legal soon enough. The problem is that there are A LOT of racers out there who enjoy an advantage by being able to own the highest quality, best numbered cells on the market and can affoard to replace them when they fall off slightlly. And those racers DON'T want to give up the advantage they hold.

So they will complain bitterly about LiPo. They will ask local track not to allow them, they will ask sanctioning bodies not to allow them, and will do everything they can to delay them becoming legal.

But...they will...

It will just take a little bit of time.
On the LiPos, I think the biggest problem I have with them is that there aren't many cars that can run them in their current configuration without a significant mod to the cars bulkhead. That's the main reason I haven't switched. I do have a pretty decent investment in Nickel metal batts too though. I sure would hate to have to shelve them all before i got a chance to use them up
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Old 07-11-2006, 01:26 PM   #4599
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Do you realy think that, once we start using LiPo, companies like Team Orion, won't find ways of eeking extra money out for 'special' packs.

I am not against moving forward, but until the trickle down to club of chargers and ESC's designed with LiPo in mind, then I don't want them legal. A LiPo pack, when it lets go, it LETS GO.
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Old 07-11-2006, 02:12 PM   #4600
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarab
Yep, most hardcore racers always hate when the playing field is leveled. This is why I'm vehemently opposed to Tamiya Silver Can TCS racing. What a cheaters paradise that is! Without Tamiya doing silver can handouts at races I will never race that class again. When I get caught up to and passed on the back straightaway in the Spec (where everyone is suppose to be equal) and/or GT3 class, something is wrong somewhere, and Tamiya doesn't care and turns a blind eye to the problem. Handout Silver Cans is the only way to level the playing field for people who don't have the resources to cheat with their silver cans.

Scarab
Dude, I've heard garbage like this for years dating back to when F103's ran Mabuchi motors. instead of speaking in generalities, lay it out there. You think someone is cheating, right? Well, without naming names, spell out what you think people are doing. There are people who know how to get more out of a Mabuchi than someone else. There are tricks and tips that are completely legal to make your mabuchi's fast. Check out the nationals sometime...the same guys who are fast with their own motors, guess what...they're just as fast with handouts. Sorry to get bent out of shape here, but if you really think "Tamiya doesn't care and turns a blind eye to the problem" you have 0-clue and 0-credibility. You want to know why you were getting passed on the straightaway? It's probably because the guy passing you had a better line out of the previous corner and is carrying more speed, making it possible for them to pull a taller gear. There are also some guys out there who still have some of the older 4-hole motors which are leaps and bounds better than the current generation of motors. They're legal. Tamiya has never had a problem with people running them.

Sorry to go off there. I just don't like it when people throw out accusations without anything to back it up. Reminds me of a story...

About 14 years ago, a racer at my local track went out and spanked the competition in stock. This guy had been good, but he dominated. Another racer came up to the race director and complained:
"That guy has to be cheating, I'm running a 17-Single and I can't keep up with him"...

Get yourself to go faster and you won't have to worry about the competition
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Old 07-11-2006, 02:40 PM   #4601
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You are correct in one respect: Buying 15 silver cans and keeping the fastest one, or having your silver can magnets zapped, or advancing the timing a bit, or any of the other tricks technically is not cheating. But it also isn't a level playing field and it's not fair to the other individuals who don't have the same advantage and resources. And I don't buy the "better line" BS either. In Spec, everyone is suppose to run the 19t pinion. If I'm 3/4th down the straightaway I should peg at my top speed, based on the 19t and the motor. There is NO WAY someone without a cheater motor should be able to catch and pass me.

The only individuals that would be opposed to silver can handouts, where everyone randomly picks a motor out of a bag, would be racers that have invested a lot of time and money making their motor faster then everyone else's out-of-the-box stocker.

That's why I gave up Spec and GT3. 27T, 19T, and Modified classes are all more equal than a SPEC class. Isn't that crazy?

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Old 07-11-2006, 02:53 PM   #4602
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my Mabuchi experience has been varied somewhat.. there are good ones and bad ones, just like any electric motor.

my TCS Mini motor was the one that came in my Suzuki kit, broke in at 2v for about 30 minutes, sprayed out and comm drops put in. it was as fast as any in memphis, which usually has fast ones, Mike M., Doc, etc...

but i have others i have done the same prep with, and are complete dogs, no matter what i do. im no mabuchi magician, for sure...

the handout idea could be viable, or what the memphis guys have talked about in their club races, after running a round, put all the motors in a box, and hand them out randomly... should be a hoot!

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Old 07-11-2006, 02:57 PM   #4603
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You're trying to tell me there's less disparity in 19T and Stock motors than Mabuchis? Uh, ok. If someone wants to spend their money to buy a batch of motors to find a few fast ones, how is that wrong? This isn't equal oppertunity racing where everyone has the same skill level or budget... Racing isn't supposed to be fair. There are haves and have nots. It's part of the game man. Also, batteries make a HUGE difference in the spec classes when compared to Stock and 19T. And don't get me wrong, I am not opposed to handouts...I'm just saying that the guys who are fast with their own motors will be fast with handouts too. And it's got nothing to do with magnet zappers, tweaking the timing or anything.
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Old 07-11-2006, 03:02 PM   #4604
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Lets not forget Chassis setup. I got to the point where i knew all the tricks with black cans and silver cans, and whats left? The chassis! i couldnt believe how many easy chassis tricks there were to get your car faster. forget about someone going slightly faster than you in silver can. Maybe he spent 4-5 hrs on just the drivetrain. Correct shimming (if TCS legal where you are) degreasing and adjustments will totally free up any 'lazy' silver can, i know, i went faster with my worse motor (as tested on a dyno) than with my fast motors once i figured out chassis setup. If you do a little more research, and some of your own R + D, you may find a few areas on your cars which are lacking, something that even the best 'tuned' silver can cant make fast. You will find its far easier to tune and tweak your drivetrain before tweaking motors..... Im still amazed at how many cars raced with the plastic wheel hexes, and wonder why they werent fast....

Tamiya doesnt care? name a company that invests so much around the world for such a top notch RC race series? Ive mainly done my TCS racing in Australia, and can tell you its by far the best and most fun rc racing ive done. Next year i hope to compete in a few of the Canadian TCS Series. Anytime i feel negative about Tamiya (like no Tamiya MSX front diff!) I remember what Tamiya and the distributors do for the series.
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Old 07-11-2006, 03:10 PM   #4605
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCGaryK
You're trying to tell me there's less disparity in 19T and Stock motors than Mabuchis? Uh, ok. If someone wants to spend their money to buy a batch of motors to find a few fast ones, how is that wrong? This isn't equal oppertunity racing where everyone has the same skill level or budget... Racing isn't supposed to be fair. There are haves and have nots. It's part of the game man. Also, batteries make a HUGE difference in the spec classes when compared to Stock and 19T. And don't get me wrong, I am not opposed to handouts...I'm just saying that the guys who are fast with their own motors will be fast with handouts too. And it's got nothing to do with magnet zappers, tweaking the timing or anything.
You hear the same complaint through all forms of motorsport, some guys just like to spend more. Me, i spend much more than others and much less than a few. Do i bitch that XXXX can afford 3 GFX chargers, latest cells, fastest motors direct from suppliers etc? No. All the power to him. If i had half a chance, id be getting the good stuff too. Im just damn proud of myself if im close or even beat the other guys.
Now back on topic, the TA05 is a great chassis lol, alas im probably selling mine tho, after just finishing all the hopups
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