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Old 02-07-2006, 03:41 PM   #2926
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2-2.5, ok, but not 3-3.5. That's excessive was all I was saying.

I always ran my 04 with .5-1 degrees of rear toe. But that car also had more weight towards the rear of the car too.
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Old 02-07-2006, 03:47 PM   #2927
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Im currently running 1 deg on my 05 and 1.5 on my 415, foams on carpet. back end is predictable, but not stuck, which is needed as we have a tight track. on an open track, im guessing id be needing more.

Just ordered a stack of toe blocks from the 415. ill start to make some changes to see what effects there is on foams.

Also someone mentioned that skinnier suspension (using the x blocks etc) makes the car quicker in turns? this true? Im still using a-a's on the 05 and out to b-c-d on the 415. should i switch to the x blocks?
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Old 02-07-2006, 03:48 PM   #2928
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Just so I feel better about not being able to run 1deg toe myself I checked out set up sheets for these top drivers carpet/foam set ups;
Mike Dumas= 2deg (won Novak)
Jilles Groskamp= 3deg (DHI set up)
Martin Hudy= 3deg
MikeBlackstock= 2deg

I would put Marc R's but he doesn't write down his set-ups
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Old 02-07-2006, 03:55 PM   #2929
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeR
Just so I feel better about not being able to run 1deg toe myself I checked out set up sheets for these top drivers carpet/foam set ups;
Mike Dumas= 2deg (won Novak)
Jilles Groskamp= 3deg (DHI set up)
Martin Hudy= 3deg
MikeBlackstock= 2deg

I would put Marc R's but he doesn't write down his set-ups
Dumas- Mod Foam
Groskamp- Mod Rubber
Hudy- Mod Foam
Blackstock- Mod/19T Foam

I'm talking about gt3/2 too which makes a difference too...
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Old 02-07-2006, 03:56 PM   #2930
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You should consult the R/C touring car bible. That's right the XXXmain Touring Car setup guide. It's a great piece of reference materiel and will give you the tweaks in the order you should try them.
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Old 02-07-2006, 03:59 PM   #2931
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCGaryK
Dumas- Mod Foam
Groskamp- Mod Rubber
Hudy- Mod Foam
Blackstock- Mod/19T Foam

I'm talking about gt3/2 too which makes a difference too...
But these guys are Dumas, Groskamp and Blackstock

Even my Mabuchi powered Nats winning 04 had 2.5deg toe on that wide open high bite Tamiya track.

I understand your theory and about 4 years ago I subscribed to the same camp- but I learned the hard way
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Old 02-07-2006, 04:05 PM   #2932
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Cool "With a grain of Salt"

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCGaryK
2-2.5, ok, but not 3-3.5. That's excessive was all I was saying.

I always ran my 04 with .5-1 degrees of rear toe. But that car also had more weight towards the rear of the car too.
Sorry if you think my conclusions are wrong, I'm just trying to help you in your quest for the perfect set-up.
The TA04 is a completely different animal and should be left at that!
My set-up on the 05 was based on the (MS) set-up that Tamiya's factory drivers used and this has been a good base set-up for me with minor adjustments for fine tuning the car. Like I said this isn't the best set-up for all applications but it works for me and several other racers out here!
It's not a matter of who's set-up is wrong or right, it's about sharing ideas on this forum because we all have the same thing in common.
I'm looking forward to TCS and hope to see you there in the Finals!
I say, let our cars do the talking and lets see who has the best set-up!
CHEERS!
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Last edited by maxepower; 02-07-2006 at 04:16 PM.
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Old 02-07-2006, 04:08 PM   #2933
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeR
But these guys are Dumas, Groskamp and Blackstock

Even my Mabuchi powered Nats winning 04 had 2.5deg toe on that wide open high bite Tamiya track.

I understand your theory and about 4 years ago I subscribed to the same camp- but I learned the hard way
give a man a fish..and he eats for a day. teach him how to fish, and he eats for a lifetime.

MikeR: please explain (the theory behind) why more rear toe will give you more corner speed? (not trying to be a smart ass, i just want to learn how to fish here )

thanks dude.
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Old 02-07-2006, 04:11 PM   #2934
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeR
Just so I feel better about not being able to run 1deg toe myself I checked out set up sheets for these top drivers carpet/foam set ups;
Mike Dumas= 2deg (won Novak)
Jilles Groskamp= 3deg (DHI set up)
Martin Hudy= 3deg
MikeBlackstock= 2deg

I would put Marc R's but he doesn't write down his set-ups
As Gary said these were from mod drivers, and on much larger tracks than im currently running on. our track is very tight which is why i like the car to rotate quickly, and running stock motors. im still learning how to get it to rotate quickly, but so far 1 deg on the rear is the best thing ive changed. Small adjustments in roll centres (top links) is the only other thing ive changed.

too make matters worse, our track is also very bumpy, so im still messing with shock setups. My s/h 415 came with 4 TRF shock sets so ive set myself up with 4 different combinations of oils and shock springs.
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Old 02-07-2006, 04:24 PM   #2935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hebiki
give a man a fish..and he eats for a day. teach him how to fish, and he eats for a lifetime.

MikeR: please explain (the theory behind) why more rear toe will give you more corner speed? (not trying to be a smart ass, i just want to learn how to fish here )

thanks dude.
Chris,
The first thing you need to do is buy a good pole! That brand "X" ray your using now wouldn't catch a sardine!!!!
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Old 02-07-2006, 04:49 PM   #2936
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxepower
Chris,
The first thing you need to do is buy a good pole! That brand "X" ray your using now wouldn't catch a sardine!!!!
believe it or not max.. im coming back home.. just looking for an MSX now.
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Old 02-07-2006, 04:51 PM   #2937
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Mike R - I think you need to come up to La Mirada this Sunday and give us a "toe" clinic.

Hebiki - I think Mike's set-up's only work on Tamiya cars. Not some "X" brand like you have now.
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Old 02-07-2006, 07:55 PM   #2938
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hebiki
give a man a fish..and he eats for a day. teach him how to fish, and he eats for a lifetime.

MikeR: please explain (the theory behind) why more rear toe will give you more corner speed? (not trying to be a smart ass, i just want to learn how to fish here )

thanks dude.
With everything it is relative- and I can talk about slip angles and friction but I base my theory on a tight heat race while too many base it on
practicing hot laps. My theory is simple really- the less time you are in the corner the faster your corner speed. If you run enough rear toe that you can dive in strong and punch the throttle sooner coming out because of STABILITY the less time you are techinically in the corner. I mean come on- how many times have we passed cars in the corner because they geeked it? Lots! Why? Because their car isn't stable enough in the corner. And why do we pass cars on the straight? Because the more hooked up car coming out of the corner sets up the straights and hits max rpm sooner than the car that had to 'tip toe' through the corner.
btw-I run with 2.5deg of rear toe for stability and .5deg of front toe out if I need more initial steering with a 19turn.

Yo Kev- yes I'll be at La Mirada this week
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Old 02-07-2006, 08:12 PM   #2939
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axle182
As Gary said these were from mod drivers.
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink

Alexander Lopez= 2deg stock&19
Peter Robinson= 2deg stock&19

Don't make me find the jeff Cuffs set up!
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Old 02-07-2006, 09:03 PM   #2940
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hebiki
actually.. the silver KIT springs a "tad" stiffer than the yellow (tested by 2004 GT1 National Champ - Ling Kang Tong). the silver kit springs have a full coil, while the yellow ones are ground down so they sit flat.
after some careful observation, i actually think that the silver kit springs are even stiffer than the blues!

comparison between silver, yellow and blue springs:

coil diameter: 1.4mm
coils: yellow - just short of 7
blue - 6.3 approx.
silver - 6

moreover, the silver springs are slightly narrower in terms of spring width, averaging 15.8mm compared to 16mm of the yellow and blue. and we all know a narrower spring=less coils=stiffer

disclaimer: this is just my observation!! tamiya may have used a different metal in the kit springs for all i know!
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