R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-05-2012, 08:53 AM   #1
Tech Master
 
theatriks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,620
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default Carpet skills vs asphalt skills

Hey guys well my indoor carpet season started not to long ago and I'm noticing that I am much better on asphalt then i am on carpet ....my question is what am I missing (besides driver skills lol ).....I'm trying to figure out how I was able to stay in the top 3 all asphalt season but can't keep that same pace on carpet .......any advice on what I should try?
theatriks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 09:01 AM   #2
Tech Elite
 
NolanP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Westmont
Posts: 2,426
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by theatriks View Post
Hey guys well my indoor carpet season started not to long ago and I'm noticing that I am much better on asphalt then i am on carpet ....my question is what am I missing (besides driver skills lol ).....I'm trying to figure out how I was able to stay in the top 3 all asphalt season but can't keep that same pace on carpet .......any advice on what I should try?
First off welcome to the club.....

Practice. Get used to the different changes you need to make to hit corners different. I know in asphalt i'm used to have a car go slower due to less traction so I am not carrying enough corner speed and I am not hitting the corner as tight as I should.
__________________
Mod Touring Car
Mod 12th
Nitro TC
Nitro GT
Wheeler and Mod Buggy
NolanP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 09:13 AM   #3
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 421
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by theatriks View Post
Hey guys well my indoor carpet season started not to long ago and I'm noticing that I am much better on asphalt then i am on carpet ....my question is what am I missing (besides driver skills lol ).....I'm trying to figure out how I was able to stay in the top 3 all asphalt season but can't keep that same pace on carpet .......any advice on what I should try?
Carpet tracks are usually much tighter, meaning you have to be far more precise to avoid accidents. Its also much more frenetic. So as Nolan says, you need to practice buddy - the key to it all!

There are quite a few "top" drivers who outdoors are superb, but then struggle a bit on carpet.
Mb3195 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 10:24 AM   #4
Tech Champion
 
Kevin K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: In a land of mini-mighty mental giants
Posts: 8,833
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to Kevin K Send a message via Yahoo to Kevin K
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by theatriks View Post
Hey guys well my indoor carpet season started not to long ago and I'm noticing that I am much better on asphalt then i am on carpet ....my question is what am I missing (besides driver skills lol ).....I'm trying to figure out how I was able to stay in the top 3 all asphalt season but can't keep that same pace on carpet .......any advice on what I should try?
Maybe you just have better drivers that race at this carpet track and not at the asphalt track you race at? From what I have seen if you are a good driver you will be good on either surface. If you struggle on one vs the other its more then likely because the talent pool is deeper on the surface you are struggling with. Also most asphalt tracks are wider tracks and can hide bad habits of driving then when going to a tighter smaller carpet track these bad habits lead to broken cars and being off pace. Just saying it might not be anything you are missing just look at who you are racing against.
__________________
2013 USVTA World Champion of the World
MOTIV RC presents the Midwest All-Star Carpet Series....15th year running 2017/18!!!
USVTA National Championship....check it out!!!
Im only responsible for what I say NOT what you understand.
Kevin K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 11:04 AM   #5
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Somewhere in Tornado Alley
Posts: 308
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

Other things to consider:

Carpet is higher bite. If you haven't already, stiffen your setup to keep from getting too much traction. Other tweaks to camber and toe may be needed too.

Tires previously run on asphalt won't work well on carpet in my experience. Get new tires if you haven't already.

Just my $.02 and I hope it helps.
nubie-wan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 11:52 AM   #6
Tech Elite
 
Skiddins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Windsor, UK
Posts: 4,761
Default

I used to be the same, but I've been racing on carpet a lot this year to try and reduce the gap between my asphalt results and carpet.

I struggled really badly at the beginning of the year regularly making the B Final my Friday night club (They would have, at most, down to a half filled C Final). I fiddled with setup week after week and steadily got better, putting it all down to my setup changes. Then realised a couple of times that I'd accidentely left most of my asphalt settings on the car and still managed to make mid A-Final.
Now my outdoor and indoor setups are the same except for springs.

I think my improvement has come from running a lot more on carpet than I used to and getting used to the increased grip and tighter turns etc.

Ironically, in turn I think this has improved my asphalt results this year as well!
__________________
Xray T4'18, T4'14 (Wet Car)
Xray X12 2018
Xray X1'16
wlrc.co.uk (West London Racing Centre)
RCDisco.co.uk
Skiddins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 12:15 PM   #7
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 421
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiddins View Post
I used to be the same, but I've been racing on carpet a lot this year to try and reduce the gap between my asphalt results and carpet.

I struggled really badly at the beginning of the year regularly making the B Final my Friday night club (They would have, at most, down to a half filled C Final). I fiddled with setup week after week and steadily got better, putting it all down to my setup changes. Then realised a couple of times that I'd accidentely left most of my asphalt settings on the car and still managed to make mid A-Final.
Now my outdoor and indoor setups are the same except for springs.

I think my improvement has come from running a lot more on carpet than I used to and getting used to the increased grip and tighter turns etc.

Ironically, in turn I think this has improved my asphalt results this year as well!
Generally speaking if you are quick on carpet you will be quick on tarmac. It doesn't always work the other way though.

Indoor carpet racing is harder.
Mb3195 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 12:20 PM   #8
Tech Lord
 
syndr0me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 5280 Raceway
Posts: 13,140
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Default

Gotta know how to wheel a twitchy car on carpet, and try to catch snap oversteer before it becomes a wreck. It's rare you'll race in great traction on the rug with rubber tires. It's a constant battle of trying to keep both ends pointing in the right direction while driving balls out. If you've got good wheels at your track, a car that's easy to drive won't be fast enough to win unless everybody else wrecks and you don't. Which does happen, but I'd rather not wait on others to fail to get a win.
syndr0me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 01:06 PM   #9
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Southfield, MI
Posts: 270
Trader Rating: 14 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
Gotta know how to wheel a twitchy car on carpet, and try to catch snap oversteer before it becomes a wreck. It's rare you'll race in great traction on the rug with rubber tires. It's a constant battle of trying to keep both ends pointing in the right direction while driving balls out. If you've got good wheels at your track, a car that's easy to drive won't be fast enough to win unless everybody else wrecks and you don't. Which does happen, but I'd rather not wait on others to fail to get a win.
Wow I couldn't agree with this more. Josh Cyrul and my self ran this past weekend. He converted his mod touring car over to stock touring and the more he made the car twitchy and dive into corners harder and faster, the faster he went. My car was not easy to drive by any means and of course I set TQ pace with a crazy nervous car. It takes a calm hand and nervous car to win carpet on road. By the way Josh was playing with motors and setup I am in no way saying I can out drive Josh Cyrul. Lol
__________________
Alston Kelso
Destiny USA•Xenon Racing•Hobbywing USA•SMC Batteries•Reilly Paint•CEFX
Detroit Racing Team/Chocolate Thunder Racing

"Let's See, Open it up" -Chris Goetz
98tahoeboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 01:08 PM   #10
Tech Elite
 
sosidge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Bristol, UK
Posts: 3,865
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
Gotta know how to wheel a twitchy car on carpet, and try to catch snap oversteer before it becomes a wreck. It's rare you'll race in great traction on the rug with rubber tires. It's a constant battle of trying to keep both ends pointing in the right direction while driving balls out. If you've got good wheels at your track, a car that's easy to drive won't be fast enough to win unless everybody else wrecks and you don't. Which does happen, but I'd rather not wait on others to fail to get a win.
Not my experience of carpet racing at all. Twitchiness and lack of grip are never an issue after the first round of racing for me, and that is on temporary UK tracks which have a lot less traction than the permanent US tracks (or so I am led to believe).

I am better, relatively, on carpet than asphalt. In opinion, that is partly experience, partly my driving style, and partly power.

Asphalt tracks in the UK are generally a lot bigger than the carpet tracks, and laptime has a lot more to do with power and track conditions. When the corners are open, you don't gain much from being 6 inches closer to the apex, but missed apexes cost loads of time indoors.
sosidge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 01:47 PM   #11
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Woodinville, WA
Posts: 2,512
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

I think setup matters a LOT more indoors.

1) Asphalt has more progressive traction. You can drive around setup issues a lot more easily.
2) Tire newness makes much more difference on asphalt. Sometimes you can out-perform better drivers just by having newer tires. On the other hand, saucing is more critical indoors. Get it wrong, and you'll be ice skating or traction rolling.
3) The more open layouts of asphalt, with more consistent traction in and out of the groove, makes it easier to get a decently fast line, even if you're not on the fast line.

On carpet, you really need a car that you're in sync with, so you can push it very hard while still keeping it off the boards and in the groove. If you don't push it hard, you'll just be off pace. But if pushing hard makes you hit things or get out of the groove, you'll get your tires dirty or mess up the car, and go slower.

I don't think a car has to be hard to drive, though. I think it just takes more fine-tuning to get the reactions more in sync with yourself as a driver.

-Mike
grippgoat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 02:04 PM   #12
Tech Lord
 
syndr0me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 5280 Raceway
Posts: 13,140
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sosidge View Post
Not my experience of carpet racing at all. Twitchiness and lack of grip are never an issue after the first round of racing for me, and that is on temporary UK tracks which have a lot less traction than the permanent US tracks (or so I am led to believe).

I am better, relatively, on carpet than asphalt. In opinion, that is partly experience, partly my driving style, and partly power.

Asphalt tracks in the UK are generally a lot bigger than the carpet tracks, and laptime has a lot more to do with power and track conditions. When the corners are open, you don't gain much from being 6 inches closer to the apex, but missed apexes cost loads of time indoors.
What tires do you run? Sorex is barely a rubber tire.

Out permanent tracks here tend to get a muddy groove. Not high traction, per se, but small tracks with lots of cross grooves from old layouts. Sorex on a big track without a dirty groove would probably be pretty nice. That's what I see in your videos. That's not really what we have here.
syndr0me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 02:07 PM   #13
Tech Elite
 
NolanP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Westmont
Posts: 2,426
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin K View Post
Maybe you just have better drivers that race at this carpet track and not at the asphalt track you race at? From what I have seen if you are a good driver you will be good on either surface. If you struggle on one vs the other its more then likely because the talent pool is deeper on the surface you are struggling with. Also most asphalt tracks are wider tracks and can hide bad habits of driving then when going to a tighter smaller carpet track these bad habits lead to broken cars and being off pace. Just saying it might not be anything you are missing just look at who you are racing against.
Almost all the people can whoop my butt on carpet locally. Not a lot of those people can turn around and beat me on asphalt at leisure so while I def don't think I'm all that great but I am def better on asphalt than carpet.

I do think having the ability to take corners a lot differently is what the difference between good guys and top guys. I think I personally setup my car for asphalt and not a mutual track. Where I feel the difference lies is a sweet spot for the car on asphalt or carpet (assuming both smooth surfaces). I feel the top top people who run have that ability. I am currently working on getting that together. As there are still the top guys who can come out and beat most of us by a lap or so. Take out the crashes and watch an A-main and the top guys and see how after the first corner they pull away from the guys who would be in the bottom of the A or the B-main. Its setup and driving for sure. I will be the first to admit that I currently do not possess this setup or skill set. But I feel through practice and trial and error that I can get there.
__________________
Mod Touring Car
Mod 12th
Nitro TC
Nitro GT
Wheeler and Mod Buggy
NolanP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 02:17 PM   #14
Tech Elite
 
Skiddins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Windsor, UK
Posts: 4,761
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
What tires do you run? Sorex is barely a rubber tire.

Out permanent tracks here tend to get a muddy groove. Not high traction, per se, but small tracks with lots of cross grooves from old layouts. Sorex on a big track without a dirty groove would probably be pretty nice. That's what I see in your videos. That's not really what we have here.
I think you've got that right.

I always ask a lot of questions etc and try to answer others, but you might notice I usually ask if there are links to any video's etc of their track, so we can see what we're dealing with.
There does seem to be quite a difference in the way the tracks are used, particularly between the US and UK.

Our 'Friday Night' clubs tend to be small temporary affairs in school halls etc where carpet has to be rolled up at the end of the evening. Some of us are lucky enough to have a Friday club that is 30m*16m, but the carpet still has to come up.
The US tracks seem more often to be semi permanent so the grip just keeps rising until the layout is changed. But they often also appear to be a bit smaller and tighter than ours.

I know there are exceptions to all the above but that appears to me to be the general trend.
__________________
Xray T4'18, T4'14 (Wet Car)
Xray X12 2018
Xray X1'16
wlrc.co.uk (West London Racing Centre)
RCDisco.co.uk
Skiddins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 02:23 PM   #15
Tech Elite
 
sosidge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Bristol, UK
Posts: 3,865
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me View Post
What tires do you run? Sorex is barely a rubber tire.

Out permanent tracks here tend to get a muddy groove. Not high traction, per se, but small tracks with lots of cross grooves from old layouts. Sorex on a big track without a dirty groove would probably be pretty nice. That's what I see in your videos. That's not really what we have here.
Not entirely sure what you mean by "Sorex is barely a rubber tyre" but yes, I currently run Sorex both indoors and out. They are probably the best tyres I've used. But I have also run a variety of Sweep, Much-More, VTEC, Take-Off and RP tyres on both surfaces over the years. Some have been slower or less durable than others, but I have always managed to get a good handling car.
sosidge is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bending Corners Raceways, Carpet, Asphalt, We got it! TireShredder California Racing 7617 10-07-2013 11:37 PM
TC5 vs XRAY T2R Pro storytyme Electric On-Road 27 11-24-2009 10:42 AM
Can anyone offer some advice for a new Electric user on Tc4 vs Losi XXX-S? Ashenor Electric On-Road 12 10-26-2005 09:50 AM
Belt Driven vs. Shaft Driven Allen Sondej Electric On-Road 69 11-05-2004 08:51 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 02:05 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net