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Old 10-30-2012, 11:03 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by mos-leung View Post
For me, i would like to see more new cars in different style to fit the LIPO+brushless.
A700 is an example for updated shaft TC with some race results in stock ETS.
I would be curious to see how well the Awesomatix car runs with a boosted 5.0 motor.

When shaft cars were new everyone thought they were awesome. They spin so free on the pit stand...how could you argue with that? The fact is that the TC3 won a lot of races because it had the best suspension for its time.

Late in the life of the TC3 and beginning of the TC4 we were starting to run 8 turn mods with some really high voltage batteries. The RPM of those combos led to some huge problems with resonant frequency vibration issues. To be fair the belt cars had the same problem with high RPM belt flapping. They overcame it by dropping the transmission ratios below 2:1. The shaft cars could not do this because to get bevel gears to be durable they needed to be a certain pitch and size. To get the shaft speed down the input gear would have to be bigger in diameter and this would make the diff cases so wide that they would get in the way of the suspension. This is one of reasons why we run belt drives.

Reduction of shock to the tires contract patch due to the take up characteristics of a belt is another positive. You can also alter the drive feel of the car by altering front and rear belt tension.

These are all unique problems to r/c cars. Many real cars use shaft drive however they do not spin their drive shafts at 6000rpm+ with plastic ring and pinion gears.
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Old 10-30-2012, 11:52 AM   #77
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I would be curious to see how well the Awesomatix car runs with a boosted 5.0 motor.
It's been running well in mod too. They haven't got an ETS win yet but have made several mains and been very competitive in those mains but it's hard to beat Volker and company no matter what you drive.
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Old 10-31-2012, 12:59 AM   #78
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Some great posts here guys, just what I like to read. My question is though if smaller motors and battery were available, how would it really affect design? Would smaller equipment make 1/10th what it is? I guess it would be more compact and less weight. We have seen several central motor and battery designs. Have any of them greatly improved RC handling? It seems those designs actually add to the number of parts count and reduces the ability to control chassis flex? In the end does it come down to how design affects weight transfer? If more or less weight is transfer requires changing shock tower angles and etc. What I am getting at I guess is one way or another depending on the design you have to get the car to transfer weight. The one thing I always nit pick on at this point are TC design features. Simple designs with features that make adjustments fast and easy.
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Old 10-31-2012, 03:10 AM   #79
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I'm thinking smaller motors couldnt be pushed to the same speeds as we r running now but I'm one of those that thinks even spec racing is still 2 fast ... if mod guys r running9.8 and stock is running 10.4 in indoor tracks I think that's way too close . I'm thinking a 2 sec spread between classes .




motor and battery size specs were to change and give the community a 2yr notice to get ready .
I would be happy with making a change or even being slower running the new tech . But I would have a headstart on feel of the newer stuff by time everyone made the change
I have been racing for 20 years, still enjoy it, but if you made all classes slower I would pack in tomorrow, 6/10th spread might not sound like a lot but it still is a massive difference, almost 2 laps in five minutes, it also doesn't say how good (or bad) your mod drivers are.

Racing is by its very definition trying to be faster than anyone else, surely it is the aim of a racer to go faster not slower, I have no interest in plodding around a track with 17.5 or 13.5 blinky, I want a motor to give more power than I can possible need, I don't want a motor to give me less than I can use, it would be like making Usain Bolt wear lead boots


If there are too many classes, get rid of the slow one not the fast ones

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Old 10-31-2012, 03:38 AM   #80
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It's been running well in mod too. They haven't got an ETS win yet but have made several mains and been very competitive in those mains but it's hard to beat Volker and company no matter what you drive.
I have had a A700, the drive train it ultra efficient, it does extremely well in stock class because of it, in modified there is nothing a A700 can do that a belt drive can't. Hats off to Oleg, the engineering is a work of art but for me it was too fragile, track side advice and spares were next to nil and finding a set up that worked on bumpy tracks eluded me.

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Old 10-31-2012, 04:44 AM   #81
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See this car has some good innovation. 5th body mount, lol, and check out the center bulk head/spur brace. They actually made it where you can still get the lighter drive train but you can still remove the the spur with two screws. Nice! Now I understand that these cool parts can raise production costs, but why not introduce them as a option? The steering rack makes sense as well. I have to say these design features A++. I see where the BD7 got a lot of their design ideas.


http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...nt-s411-2.html

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Old 10-31-2012, 04:54 AM   #82
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My question is what makes it so different than the TC3? I could see the if guys were running the motor positioned like the belted cars, but all the pics I see the motor is mounted like the TC3. Just curious, as I see nothing other than the shocks that make it unique.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM View Post
I would be curious to see how well the Awesomatix car runs with a boosted 5.0 motor.

When shaft cars were new everyone thought they were awesome. They spin so free on the pit stand...how could you argue with that? The fact is that the TC3 won a lot of races because it had the best suspension for its time.

Late in the life of the TC3 and beginning of the TC4 we were starting to run 8 turn mods with some really high voltage batteries. The RPM of those combos led to some huge problems with resonant frequency vibration issues. To be fair the belt cars had the same problem with high RPM belt flapping. They overcame it by dropping the transmission ratios below 2:1. The shaft cars could not do this because to get bevel gears to be durable they needed to be a certain pitch and size. To get the shaft speed down the input gear would have to be bigger in diameter and this would make the diff cases so wide that they would get in the way of the suspension. This is one of reasons why we run belt drives.

Reduction of shock to the tires contract patch due to the take up characteristics of a belt is another positive. You can also alter the drive feel of the car by altering front and rear belt tension.

These are all unique problems to r/c cars. Many real cars use shaft drive however they do not spin their drive shafts at 6000rpm+ with plastic ring and pinion gears.
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:23 AM   #83
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In mod they run the car transverse, but can't really do it in stock (boosted or blinky) due to the internal ratio (around 2.5) so nearly makes it imposs to get a "reasonable" ratio and still having some brakes.

So stock they tend to run inline.


The advantages are that magical C of G that Xray are buzzing off.

You say you want innovation then complain there's no advantages of something different lol,
Most cars look similar now because, for these motors and batteries, this is the "best" layout.
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:50 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by RCknight View Post
See this car has some good innovation. 5th body mount, lol, and check out the center bulk head/spur brace. They actually made it where you can still get the lighter drive train but you can still remove the the spur with two screws. Nice! Now I understand that these cool parts can raise production costs, but why not introduce them as a option? The steering rack makes sense as well. I have to say these design features A++. I see where the BD7 got a lot of their design ideas.


http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric...nt-s411-2.html
The 411 was made like that for flex. The spur isn't removable without taking off the top deck.

Sort of regret selling my 411s...
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:59 AM   #85
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Most cars look similar now because, for these motors and batteries, this is the "best" layout.
Or maybe because a lot of rc car designers are lazy and like to copy other designs :-)
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Old 10-31-2012, 06:41 AM   #86
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Or maybe because a lot of rc car designers are lazy and like to copy other designs :-)
Actually the designers are more afraid to break convention , becuase people might doubt the car's design if it looks different than the norm, and sales suffer. thats why we see the 415 clones everywhere today.
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Old 10-31-2012, 01:50 PM   #87
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Just because a design looks similar doesn't mean it's a copy. Component placement is a small part of RC design. Grab some calipers and measure a few cars. Measure the suspension geometry, motor placement and diff locations. I'm willing to bet most if not all cars cars will be different from one another.
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Old 10-31-2012, 03:40 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by RCknight View Post
My question is what makes it so different than the TC3? I could see the if guys were running the motor positioned like the belted cars, but all the pics I see the motor is mounted like the TC3. Just curious, as I see nothing other than the shocks that make it unique.
I don't really like the concept of what they are doing but it is nothing like a TC3 other than it uses a shaft drive. Even without the rotary shocks the suspension system is completely unlike any other sedan. It has more in common with the old Schumacher suspension (SST, Axis and Mission) or a 1/12th front suspension than any current sedan. It appears to be driven by inexpensive short run production costs as carbon/link arms are cheaper to make in small batches than incurring the cost of complex injections molds for arms, hubs, etc....

Moldings are cheaper of you are making thousands of cars. CNC carbon/alloy/links are cheaper if you are making hundreds of cars.
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Old 10-31-2012, 03:54 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by malkiy View Post
Just because a design looks similar doesn't mean it's a copy. Component placement is a small part of RC design. Grab some calipers and measure a few cars. Measure the suspension geometry, motor placement and diff locations. I'm willing to bet most if not all cars cars will be different from one another.
yes, but the general design will not change. They are so confined to a limitation that they only can do minor changes like move some part a mm here and there. There is no out-of-the box ideas to make it exciting. Even if there was one, ROAR will eagerly go and smash the idea.

But honestly, I can't imagine the cars being able to handle any better than it can now. At least using the physical amount of grip available(tires/surface).
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Old 10-31-2012, 04:05 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by AdrianM View Post
I would be curious to see how well the Awesomatix car runs with a boosted 5.0 motor.
I ran mine with a boosted 4.5 motor on a big track (this year's worlds track) and with the longitudinal motor mount I could notice a bit of torque steer. With the transverse motor mount it didn't had torque steer but it had a bit more chassis roll.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCknight View Post
My question is what makes it so different than the TC3? I could see the if guys were running the motor positioned like the belted cars, but all the pics I see the motor is mounted like the TC3. Just curious, as I see nothing other than the shocks that make it unique.
You're kidding right?. Everything is different on the Awesomatix compared to a TC3, or any other car currently available.

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Or maybe because a lot of rc car designers are lazy and like to copy other designs :-)
Or maybe because completely new designs cost more money to develop and most racers aren't willing to pay more for a completely new design. They rather have a cheaply made 417 knock off in the end.
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