100LikesWhat's the biggest advance/step backward you've seen in r/c over the last 15 years?
10-21-2012, 06:50 PM
#16
Tech Addict
iTrader: (38)
Electronic timing is probably the biggest improvement, this if of course for the people that have been around long enough. Lipo, brushless and 2.4 are well up on the list also. The only complaint I have is the stock class is out of control. Stock can be 17.5 blinky, 17.5 boosted, 13.5 blinky or 13.5 boosted and I'm sure somewhere out there a stock class probably has 10.5's and 21.5's. The old days stock was stock and you could go to any stock race and know you had the proper equipment.
10-21-2012, 06:52 PM
#17
Biggest step backward for me is the stupid number of classes we now have. It's a nightmare for clubs and officials, and serves to dilute the racing talent.
Brushless motors are good, but their implementation has taken us backward in one very important respect. It used to be that to get a new person racing in an appropriate class I'd say, "here use this sliver can 540, it's only $20." They'd bolt it in and be racing at a good speed for the day and probably come back. Now there is no equivalent. Worse, half the RTRs come with stupid speed sensorless motors, so it's not just a matter of buying a new motor, but also an ESC. Instead of telling a newbie they'd have to invest $20 to race it's now >$100. That's a big turn off for a lot of people, and it's a hard problem to get around.
Biggest advances, yeah electronic timing for me is good. LiPo has been good. The general reduction in cost is positive.
Brushless motors are good, but their implementation has taken us backward in one very important respect. It used to be that to get a new person racing in an appropriate class I'd say, "here use this sliver can 540, it's only $20." They'd bolt it in and be racing at a good speed for the day and probably come back. Now there is no equivalent. Worse, half the RTRs come with stupid speed sensorless motors, so it's not just a matter of buying a new motor, but also an ESC. Instead of telling a newbie they'd have to invest $20 to race it's now >$100. That's a big turn off for a lot of people, and it's a hard problem to get around.
Biggest advances, yeah electronic timing for me is good. LiPo has been good. The general reduction in cost is positive.
10-21-2012, 07:31 PM
#18
I started racing in 1980 Before computers we had to hand count the cars, we had a counter for every car and scratch for every lap! then we became big time and had timers and we would write down each cars lap time. What arguments we would have about who won 2nd 3rd! it was a mess.
#1) is computers and transponder use at even the smallest clubs we wished we could afford a amb system when they came out that system was only used at a the worlds and nats.
#2) 24mhz radio's (Ive watched many a big race ruined on purpose in the old days)
#3) Lipo's
#4)Brushless motors ( I spent many day with Neal McCurdy (Revtech)rebuilding brushed motors between heats and the mains!)
#5) Tracks and surface conditioning it is almost a science now in the old days it was hit and miss.
Worst things
#1)We use to go to races with 150 entries now a club is good to have a core group of 25 racers.
At original Norcal Joel Johnson's dad hobbyshop there would be 120 racers for a Sunday club race! Talk about competition! Real fun hand counting those races!
#2)Losi's put dirt over the old Rach Pitstop track and it is no longer open!
In Socal that was the place everyone wated to race at. Raced the Nats there 1/12th 1/10th 1/8th scale and many a club race and it was a blast. I watched Ralphy Burich, Joel Johnson, Rick Howert when they were all youngster there! Now they have more grey hair then I do.
#1) is computers and transponder use at even the smallest clubs we wished we could afford a amb system when they came out that system was only used at a the worlds and nats.
#2) 24mhz radio's (Ive watched many a big race ruined on purpose in the old days)
#3) Lipo's
#4)Brushless motors ( I spent many day with Neal McCurdy (Revtech)rebuilding brushed motors between heats and the mains!)
#5) Tracks and surface conditioning it is almost a science now in the old days it was hit and miss.
Worst things
#1)We use to go to races with 150 entries now a club is good to have a core group of 25 racers.
At original Norcal Joel Johnson's dad hobbyshop there would be 120 racers for a Sunday club race! Talk about competition! Real fun hand counting those races!
#2)Losi's put dirt over the old Rach Pitstop track and it is no longer open!
In Socal that was the place everyone wated to race at. Raced the Nats there 1/12th 1/10th 1/8th scale and many a club race and it was a blast. I watched Ralphy Burich, Joel Johnson, Rick Howert when they were all youngster there! Now they have more grey hair then I do.
10-21-2012, 07:53 PM
#19
Good things:
- Brushless motors. No more replacing brushes or cutting comms.
- Lipo batteries. Giving nitro like race times. No need to worry about matched cells, discharging and equalising cells.
- Personal transponders.
- 2.4GHz radio
Downsides
- Rubber tyres. Not a huge amount of development there, some rubber types can be complete garbage.
- Hard brittle plastic rims. Why?
- Brushless motors. No more replacing brushes or cutting comms.
- Lipo batteries. Giving nitro like race times. No need to worry about matched cells, discharging and equalising cells.
- Personal transponders.
- 2.4GHz radio
Downsides
- Rubber tyres. Not a huge amount of development there, some rubber types can be complete garbage.
- Hard brittle plastic rims. Why?
10-21-2012, 08:33 PM
#20
Biggest step backward for me is the stupid number of classes we now have. It's a nightmare for clubs and officials, and serves to dilute the racing talent.
Brushless motors are good, but their implementation has taken us backward in one very important respect. It used to be that to get a new person racing in an appropriate class I'd say, "here use this sliver can 540, it's only $20." They'd bolt it in and be racing at a good speed for the day and probably come back. Now there is no equivalent. Worse, half the RTRs come with stupid speed sensorless motors, so it's not just a matter of buying a new motor, but also an ESC. Instead of telling a newbie they'd have to invest $20 to race it's now >$100. That's a big turn off for a lot of people, and it's a hard problem to get around.
Brushless motors are good, but their implementation has taken us backward in one very important respect. It used to be that to get a new person racing in an appropriate class I'd say, "here use this sliver can 540, it's only $20." They'd bolt it in and be racing at a good speed for the day and probably come back. Now there is no equivalent. Worse, half the RTRs come with stupid speed sensorless motors, so it's not just a matter of buying a new motor, but also an ESC. Instead of telling a newbie they'd have to invest $20 to race it's now >$100. That's a big turn off for a lot of people, and it's a hard problem to get around.
10-21-2012, 09:15 PM
#21
I started racing in 1980 Before computers we had to hand count the cars, we had a counter for every car and scratch for every lap! then we became big time and had timers and we would write down each cars lap time. What arguments we would have about who won 2nd 3rd! it was a mess.
#1) is computers and transponder use at even the smallest clubs we wished we could afford a amb system when they came out that system was only used at a the worlds and nats.
#2) 24mhz radio's (Ive watched many a big race ruined on purpose in the old days)
#3) Lipo's
#4)Brushless motors ( I spent many day with Neal McCurdy (Revtech)rebuilding brushed motors between heats and the mains!)
#5) Tracks and surface conditioning it is almost a science now in the old days it was hit and miss..
#1) is computers and transponder use at even the smallest clubs we wished we could afford a amb system when they came out that system was only used at a the worlds and nats.
#2) 24mhz radio's (Ive watched many a big race ruined on purpose in the old days)
#3) Lipo's
#4)Brushless motors ( I spent many day with Neal McCurdy (Revtech)rebuilding brushed motors between heats and the mains!)
#5) Tracks and surface conditioning it is almost a science now in the old days it was hit and miss..
With the rest of that stuff just think about what you would want to go without. Do you remember setting your car on the line, waiting for a race to start and it suddenly starts fidgiting like it was having a seizure. You are on the drivers stand and someones car inevitably crawls up because of the receivers buzzing each other.
I love the batteries we have now and the brushless tech, but I think the best thing we have now is scoring systems and good secure radios.
10-21-2012, 10:11 PM
#22
Lack of LTO Racing...
Last edited by Marv; 10-23-2012 at 10:22 AM.
10-21-2012, 10:47 PM
#23
#1 Without a single doubt is 2.4GHz.
Who remembers back in the day when your model had a 100 foot range and after that its glitch/runaway city? How about frequency boards? How about some clown in the pits with your crystal sticking it in his TX just for laughs? Modern radios are for the most part ROCK SOLID in comparison to the crap of yesteryear.
#2 AMB.
Transponders brought accuracy to the races. Race directors are no longer bean counters - they can actually call the race! Personal sized transponders are the cats ass. So I guess then, technically, so is RC Scoring Pro.
#3 Advancements in servo technology.
They used to be SOOOOOOOO crappy. I mean REALLY crappy like you wouldn't understand how badly so unless you owned some of the worst of the best from yesteryear.
#4 The internet.
WHAT? Am I on crack? No. Let me send you my setup sheet in PDF. Or look up the spec. and dimensions for my next battery purchase. Or sign up and pay for the next race... all from my iPhone. Without the internet, I GUARANTEE I wouldn't have a single clue about proper setup for any of my kits, nor would the vast majority of people. Lets not forget to mention Youtube!
#5 ESC's.
Pretty much a no brainer... that is unless you've never owned a model with a 3 speed mechanical switch that used resistors to dissipate the energy to allow for slower speeds. Then you might not understand why ESC's are so good.
#6 Lipo and brshless.
Who remembers hooking up their 1200mah nicad, walking over to the start/finish line, placing their car on the grid and not even daring to touch the steering or throttle until the tone sounded? Why? because your pack would dump flat on its ass at 4 minutes and 6 seconds... that is if you brought the correct pinion with you that day.
#7 Tires and foams. No way we're taking steps backwards with tire and foam technology. I'd hate to have to run tires and compounds from 15 years ago.
#8 Switching power supplies.
You know, back in the day I used to own a really nice Pyramid 35 amp power supply. It weighed about 40 pounds. Kind of hard to stuff in a hauler bag if you know what I mean.
#9 China. Because without China, this would be a millionaires only club.
Who remembers back in the day when your model had a 100 foot range and after that its glitch/runaway city? How about frequency boards? How about some clown in the pits with your crystal sticking it in his TX just for laughs? Modern radios are for the most part ROCK SOLID in comparison to the crap of yesteryear.
#2 AMB.
Transponders brought accuracy to the races. Race directors are no longer bean counters - they can actually call the race! Personal sized transponders are the cats ass. So I guess then, technically, so is RC Scoring Pro.
#3 Advancements in servo technology.
They used to be SOOOOOOOO crappy. I mean REALLY crappy like you wouldn't understand how badly so unless you owned some of the worst of the best from yesteryear.
#4 The internet.
WHAT? Am I on crack? No. Let me send you my setup sheet in PDF. Or look up the spec. and dimensions for my next battery purchase. Or sign up and pay for the next race... all from my iPhone. Without the internet, I GUARANTEE I wouldn't have a single clue about proper setup for any of my kits, nor would the vast majority of people. Lets not forget to mention Youtube!
#5 ESC's.
Pretty much a no brainer... that is unless you've never owned a model with a 3 speed mechanical switch that used resistors to dissipate the energy to allow for slower speeds. Then you might not understand why ESC's are so good.
#6 Lipo and brshless.
Who remembers hooking up their 1200mah nicad, walking over to the start/finish line, placing their car on the grid and not even daring to touch the steering or throttle until the tone sounded? Why? because your pack would dump flat on its ass at 4 minutes and 6 seconds... that is if you brought the correct pinion with you that day.
#7 Tires and foams. No way we're taking steps backwards with tire and foam technology. I'd hate to have to run tires and compounds from 15 years ago.
#8 Switching power supplies.
You know, back in the day I used to own a really nice Pyramid 35 amp power supply. It weighed about 40 pounds. Kind of hard to stuff in a hauler bag if you know what I mean.
#9 China. Because without China, this would be a millionaires only club.
10-21-2012, 10:53 PM
#24
Improvements -
1. 2.4
2. Lipo
3. Cost (comparing quality of batts, radios, kits)
4. Personal Transponders
5. RTR kits (brought a ton more people to the track)
Fails -
1. RTR (when you build a kit, you learn about the kit, Not take it back to the counter to have somebody else do it for you.)
2. Driver etiquette (makes me shake my head sometimes)
3. Race lengths & still using old formats. Average of 5 min, with the packs we now have. REALLY? Bump it up a few minutes per heat. Price of entry keeps going up but we still run the same race time. Feels like less bang for the buck.
4. Not many drivers mentoring newer drivers. Had I not had some kind of help in the pits when I started racing some 24 years ago, I probably would not be racing anymore. Helping others progress is one of the main reasons I still race.
5. It's probably a regional thing, but we used to support other tracks and travel to show support to each other. Obviously cost of living is up, but it's still nice to get a roadie in once in a while.
1. 2.4
2. Lipo
3. Cost (comparing quality of batts, radios, kits)
4. Personal Transponders
5. RTR kits (brought a ton more people to the track)
Fails -
1. RTR (when you build a kit, you learn about the kit, Not take it back to the counter to have somebody else do it for you.)
2. Driver etiquette (makes me shake my head sometimes)
3. Race lengths & still using old formats. Average of 5 min, with the packs we now have. REALLY? Bump it up a few minutes per heat. Price of entry keeps going up but we still run the same race time. Feels like less bang for the buck.
4. Not many drivers mentoring newer drivers. Had I not had some kind of help in the pits when I started racing some 24 years ago, I probably would not be racing anymore. Helping others progress is one of the main reasons I still race.
5. It's probably a regional thing, but we used to support other tracks and travel to show support to each other. Obviously cost of living is up, but it's still nice to get a roadie in once in a while.
10-21-2012, 11:57 PM
#26
Good:
1. LIPO, So much less work than even the best Nimh's
2. Brushless ESC's and motors, ease of maintenance again
3. 2.4 ghz radios. I'm still rockin 27mhz FM and now I'm happier than ever.
4. Auto tire truers!!! How has this been overlooked? so much easier....
5. WGT, best class ever. Spec tire with none of the TC bs. Why is this not THE most popular class on carpet?
Bad:
1. brushless esc's and motors gone blinky. Sure you don't have to tune your esc, but now you get to look for rotor/stator combos instead of moving a slider in some software. The illusion of parity, with none of the actual benefits.
2. rubber tires for TC on carpet. We shoulda just spec'd foam compounds years ago and stuck with it.
3. $500 tc's really? We've gotten to the point that we're just rehashing the 416 design with minimal improvements, over and over. Why do they cost so much?
4. TOO MANY CLASSES. VTA, USGT, AMATEUR 17.5, STOCK 17.5, BOOSTED 17.5, and that's just TC! How about Stock, Superstock, and Mod?
1. LIPO, So much less work than even the best Nimh's
2. Brushless ESC's and motors, ease of maintenance again
3. 2.4 ghz radios. I'm still rockin 27mhz FM and now I'm happier than ever.
4. Auto tire truers!!! How has this been overlooked? so much easier....
5. WGT, best class ever. Spec tire with none of the TC bs. Why is this not THE most popular class on carpet?
Bad:
1. brushless esc's and motors gone blinky. Sure you don't have to tune your esc, but now you get to look for rotor/stator combos instead of moving a slider in some software. The illusion of parity, with none of the actual benefits.
2. rubber tires for TC on carpet. We shoulda just spec'd foam compounds years ago and stuck with it.
3. $500 tc's really? We've gotten to the point that we're just rehashing the 416 design with minimal improvements, over and over. Why do they cost so much?
4. TOO MANY CLASSES. VTA, USGT, AMATEUR 17.5, STOCK 17.5, BOOSTED 17.5, and that's just TC! How about Stock, Superstock, and Mod?
10-22-2012, 12:22 AM
#27
Advances:
* Lipo batteries
* 2.4G radios
* Multi function chargers
* Computerised lap scoring
* lower prices
* Wider choice of inexpensive equipment
* Trackside AC power, no more lugging a 12V lead acid battery around or getting a push/jump start at the end of racing
* Portable Gazeebo's, a god send here in Aus
* Brushless motors (Although have to agree with RA the demise of the 540 has had some negative effects)
Negatives:
* "Blob" TC bodies
* Expensive equipment that has some form of "approved" sticker on it
* Mini's... Just kidding.
Cheers
Rob.
* Lipo batteries
* 2.4G radios
* Multi function chargers
* Computerised lap scoring
* lower prices
* Wider choice of inexpensive equipment
* Trackside AC power, no more lugging a 12V lead acid battery around or getting a push/jump start at the end of racing
* Portable Gazeebo's, a god send here in Aus
* Brushless motors (Although have to agree with RA the demise of the 540 has had some negative effects)
Negatives:
* "Blob" TC bodies
* Expensive equipment that has some form of "approved" sticker on it
* Mini's... Just kidding.
Cheers
Rob.
10-22-2012, 12:38 AM
#28
I'm of mixed feelings on this...but I'd have to say the biggest step backwards is RTRs...sure it brought people in but most don't stick around after they break the car the first time and many of the ones that do stick around think their RTR is the fastest thing on earth and they should be instantly competitive against veteran racers. So when they do poorly they quit.
10-22-2012, 09:25 AM
#29
Good things
brushless motors
lipo batteries
personal transponders
the bad
to many motor classes
Tc novice 21.5 blinky
tc stock 17.5 blinky
no super stock
Tc mod any motor with boost
1/12 th
novice 17.5 blinky
stock 13.5 blinky
mod any motor with boost
world gt
13.5 Blinky
brushless motors
lipo batteries
personal transponders
the bad
to many motor classes
Tc novice 21.5 blinky
tc stock 17.5 blinky
no super stock
Tc mod any motor with boost
1/12 th
novice 17.5 blinky
stock 13.5 blinky
mod any motor with boost
world gt
13.5 Blinky
10-22-2012, 10:03 AM
#30
The good: Brushless, Lipo, 2.4, durable plastic parts
The bad: the Traxxas Slash and Short Bus Truck racing, bigger and bigger offroad jumps, the demise of the boosted ESC (what, you like burning motors?) Video games, complete lack of desire to be a tuner/tinkerer in any new kids.
The bad: the Traxxas Slash and Short Bus Truck racing, bigger and bigger offroad jumps, the demise of the boosted ESC (what, you like burning motors?) Video games, complete lack of desire to be a tuner/tinkerer in any new kids.